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About Vivian Evans (324 Articles)
Vivian is a UKIP patron, Vice Chair of UKIP Cardiff and Editor in Chief of UKIP Daily

67 Comments on Letters to the Editor – Tuesday 3rd October 2017

  1. Tomaž

    I agree. I also don’t like ‘For the Nation’ because it in no way indicates what sort of nation we wish to promote.

    The pound sign is a stylised ‘L’ meaning libra – a pound of money (silver in old pre-fiat money or the gold equivalent value); however, it equally could stand for libertas – liberty, freedom of speech. What’s dated about that? Perhaps just a tweak is all that was needed?

  2. Here is Tommy Robinson’s latest video as of one hour ago and it indicates quite clearly in my opinion what the British public feel and that they indeed are crying out for an anti-Islam party.

    If HB is not prepared to publicly declare that Islam is evil, because that is what the people want from somebody, then he may as well consider resigning immediately.

    https://youtu.be/fSlYrebwACE

  3. I have been waiting now for eighteen months for UKIP to do something in the way of campaigning to get us out of the Europe Union, and to start putting the public right on the terrible bile spewing out of theevilbbc and others.

    I have followed UKIP now for about six years and became a member just over two years ago. I campaigned for the 2015 election and think the 2015 manifesto is spot on, every leaflet I put through a door was for Nigel if more people had read the manifesto then I am sure we would have done far better in the election.

    Citizenkain has asked why so few votes were cast for what appeared to be the number of eligible participants, well I am one who didn’t vote although I got election paperwork I didn’t consider myself eligible because my membership expired on the 1st July this year and I vowed I would give UKIP no more of my money until they sorted themselves out, that also includes my local branch who are a complete wast of space.

    After Nigel departed form leadership the NEC seem to have retreated into the UKIP fort slammed all the doors and windows shut and left the rest of the membership with no direction to go, nothing to campaign on. I have seen some theories on why UKIP has declined so, and the answer is not anyone from outside of UKIP but the NEC itself. I would like to point out that the NEC is nothing without the membership, but the membership could do just fine without the NEC.

    I am retired with some spare time to give, but do UKIP look to using people like me, NO

    As I said I did not vote in this election but I voted for John Rees Evens in the last leadership election, John would be great for getting UKIP s message to the younger voter. I would not have voted for Anne Marie but a bit of mischief in me wouldn’t have minded if she had won. One thing I can say is that almost everyone in the UK would have known who was the UKIP leader by now if she had won. Henry who?

    Finally I would like to congratulate UKIP Daily and the contributors on the wonderful job you do in keeping people informed of the goings on in UKIP. As far as I am concerned UKIP Daily is UKIP!!.

  4. I had an email from Stuart Agnew this morning in which he said he wanted to encourage AMW to stay in UKIP rather than form a new party. For those members who are thinking of leaving, wouldn’t it be better to wait and see what she decides to do before making a final decision. If she decides to stay, there’s no reason why she can’t stand for leadership again. Next time she will have the support of the alleged 1000 new members who joined to back her leadership bid but weren’t eligible to vote.

    There’s no reason to think Henry Bolton will last any longer than the last leader. In my view he couldn’t have made a worse start. He’s only been a UKIP member for three years and yet he thought he had the right to get a rival candidate removed from the ballot because he didn’t agree with her views. Because of that I have no sympathy for him. Today’s Jewish Chronicle reports that he believes his election has saved UKIP from becoming the “UK Nazi Party.” It also reports that he will be soft on Islam.

    https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/i-ve-saved-ukip-from-becoming-nazis-says-henry-bolton-1.445393

    • Gloriana,
      UKIP has suffered a battle for its soul recently, between those who are afraid of(mostly political) bloodshed, and who just wish the whole islam thing would go away, and those like Stuart and Anne Marie who realise we HAVE to do SOMETHING to save our country for our kids.

      I know Stuart, he’s a good man. He will do his best to try and and hold the party together.

      But the ‘Frit’ wing of UKIP think they have won this battle by electing a safe candidate who won’t rock the boat, and that the party is now united forever. Seriously? And so it must be said there is barely a snowball’s chance in hell of them allowing Anne Marie, or any other ‘nazi’ as they characterise her, getting anywhere near a position of influence in the hierarchy of UKIP.

      Staying in the party for 6 months to a year to just see what happens is fine, if you haven’t spent the last 8 years trying to communicate with them about some quite weighty issues and being either completely ignored, or told flippantly that issues are being looked at, and now being insulted by name calling. If you’re happy with that, go ahead and stay, I wish you well. There are I would guess thousands of us who are up to here with that treatment and frankly don’t care any more. And yes, of course it’s a shame. More than that. It’s tragic.

      Stuart and Anne Marie aren’t destroying the party – UKIP is destroying ITSELF.

  5. Barrie Greatorex // October 3, 2017 at 4:31 pm // Reply

    As a new member, I joined one year ago, I went to my first ever Conference in Torquay. The main reason for attending was to see if it was worth renewing my membership and of course to see the reaction of the membership when the new leader was announced. The first thing that impressed me was the attendance, I had expected far fewer, secondly was the quality of both in house and guest speakers. As I sat waiting for the announcement to be made I felt a pang of despair, it crossed my mind that if an undesirable leader was to be the winner, I would not be able to renew membership and I had found myself wanting to do just that. When it came down to the last two I held my breath, for I realised if AMW was to win I could not renew, so the relief when Henry Bolton was proclaimed was immense. I had studied with due diligence the attributes of all candidates and I came to choose between 3, JRE, David Kurten & Henry Bolton, I eliminated JRE when he endorsed AMW, David Kurten I thought was doing a great job in the London Assembly, so Henry Bolton was my choice. David impressed me even more with his speech and I felt would make a good Deputy for Henry. Mike Hookem also seems poised for future appointments. All in all I was convinced to renew so will be doing exactly that. UKIP for me will become a very electable Government in waiting in the next 4 years, at the very least the 3rd force in British politics, I wish them all great success. P.S I do think the detractors and sourpusses should really go to the new street fighters aid, UKIP is leaving the streets and going on to Westminster.

    • Barrie I understand UKIP has approximately 150 council seats and some of those are up for election in just over 7 months time. If that number were to drop do you think it would be appropriate for Henry Bolton to resign?

  6. UKIP had become a toothless Tiger,
    Now it has morphed into a toothless lion.

  7. What a pity that instead of uniting behind our new leader (I didn’t vote for him but I accept democracy), all people can worry about is the new logo!

    • I agree.

      I chose not to vcte at the Conference as I also happened to think we were being bounced into a decision via a purported consultation.

      I would not have minded if the arguments for a particular brand and the need to change had been set out in Independence Magazine prior to Conference.
      But nevertheless the Lion logo IS growing on me ( if the copyright thing comes to nothing ) – and even more so today after Boris Johnson argued we should ‘Let the Lion ROAR ! ‘ 🙂 Indeed !

      What is much more important is to get Henry B to proclaim a Moratorium on all new Immigration for five years as UKIP policy.

      PS: I have long thought that the original £ brand was out of date ( as no one has been arguing for joining the Euro since 1999 ) so it DID need changing. 26,000 members will never all agree on a Brand so there has to be some prior choosing amongst the Leadership. This is NOT an issue to get hung up on.

  8. I endorse Stout’s sentiments about what I term the demonising that has been going on of one candidate. As a party that has suffered misrepresentation demonising more than most, why would we do that to ourselves? I came away from Torquay pretty dispirited by it all.
    Bav’s description of neo-nazis does not seem applicable to A-MW and I Don’t recognise myself as one the 21% who voted for her in his description. I have been a founder supporter of The Freedom Association and on their Council for some years. I believe in freedom of the individual over the state, national government and strong defence, free enterprise capitalism.
    These are not attributes of National Socialism
    or Fascism. Indeed, Mussolini is quoted as saying Fascism should really be called “Corporatism” – the merging of state and corporate power and wrote ” All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.”
    I am certainly not a statist and I Don’t believe A-MW is either. So why have we been demonized as such by party high-ups, talking about saving the party from national socialism = Naziism?
    As Stout rightly points out, we have legitimized the language of our opponents about us. Madness!

    • I have a feeling one of the reasons Farage demonized AMW and her supporters is simply because he would be unlikely to keep his job at LBC semi-fronting a party that the MSM would deem neo-Nazi. AfD who Nigel endorses would be considered more ‘far right’ than AMW by British standards so it’s ok for other parties to publicly hold those views in Nigel’s opinion but not UKIP. That would be too uncomfortable for his chat show colleagues. A hypocrite of the highest order.

  9. Our good man Mr Gerard Batten MEP (sorry Mr Bav, I mean neo-Nazi) has got his free speech back. (Twitter account was suspended) FREE SPEECH.

  10. I know nothing about parties but businesses use logos, and they can be important and help or hinder a company or stop it dead in its tracks.

    Successful and expanding companies generate a sort of excitement which people want to identify with or at least follow. A logo can help the recognition, This can last for decades.

    Alternatively, sometimes it can identify with failure, or just point customers to others, or act as a benchmark.

    I’ve never done any sort of course on this, but I’ve had meny opportunities to worry about logos. famous and otherwise.

    My conclusions are…. they’re dynamite if you hit the nail. The excitement lasts. This can be prolonged by small but obvious changes.. They work quicker and best if you can piggy back on something unrelated and popular But not celebrities. Very few work and even less are recognised by the host company

    All this, if you’ve read this far, means I don’t know. And it’s too dangerous to just jump ignorantly into ito the dark. It’s wiser to go for tweeking which may or may not work but can be very successful. and at last you’ve done no damage. Or maybe to form another oganisation and test and piggyback. Think sideways with this sort of stuff.

    Note to HB..
    Get it right. But I suppose if it goes wrong you can tweek it into a pussycat. and add a rainbow etc

    All boringley obvious I suppose. Incidetally Being “old fashioned out of touch and out of date ” is not a good enough reason. IMO It’s just foolish.

  11. Of course this was a pre-emptive move to get the a new logo in place and quite inappropriate to do before the new leader was elected. However, and firstly this was done to improve and extend the party’s appeal in the country and secondly, we are where we are.

    To reverse the branding decision now would be unhelpful simply because people need to know the answer to a very important question before deciding. For NEC members to vote on what they personally think would be a better symbol for the party without some understanding of the answer to that question would place personal preferences over factual information. As we have the logo, for the moment, we do need to assess whether or not it does improve our image with the general public, as it is to them that it is aimed. The question would be ‘do people prefer it’?

    I don’t know if any polling was done beforehand, but I suspect not as such a process wasn’t mentioned, so I do think it would be helpful now for us to ascertain it’s likely impact, firstly amongst our members, but more importantly amongst the people.

  12. In response to the logo debate, the lion device will only survive if the Premier League decide not to take legal action, as its a clear rip-off. I still can’t find out who devised it and who got paid for it. The decision to change it at that time is rather an indulgence as the coffers are empty and it will take months- or longer- to get the change over completed, but never mind.

    As for the definition of a neo -Nazi, there are some clear indicators. The first is finding the ‘hate plank’ – as Oswald Mosley put it. For the Nazi’s it was the Jews, ‘decadent’ art music and culture and for the neo-Nazis its Islam, ‘political correctness’ and the MSM. Neo -Nazi’s, like the old ones, also have a strong affinity towards identity politics. They consider themselves as all in the same gang, all thinking alike and in the case of the younger element, all dressing alike. They use made-up language – ‘cuck’ ‘normies’ ‘libtards’ – to further set themselves apart. They adopt the symbolism of Nazi Germany, particularly red white and black imagery on posters, websites and other published materials and sometimes embrace Nordic runes lightning -bolts or other devices as badges. Neo-Nazi’s claim to be the only true voice of the nation and condemn opposition as either decadent, part of a ‘global conspiracy’ or led by mysterious actors in the ‘main stream media’. Neo-Nazis – of course- have to have an omnipotent leader. They lead by divine providence, are always right and have powers of perception that are almost superhuman.
    I don’t think that the majority of UKIP fit this model, but some certainly do. Luckily, as I’ve said in past correspondence, real Britons don’t like these silly, narrow-minded people and have found that ridicule is often the best way of getting rid of them, but occasionally we have to fight them off.

    • As I have previously asked in these columns : who owns the copyright on the new logo and what, if anything, do they earn from it’s use?

    • Some of your contributions are excellent Mister Bav but this is not one of them. However you have my respect always.
      You miss out one of the key ingredients to what you refer to as neonazism – and that is love. It is love of the homeland that characterises all successful forms of populism.
      https://youtu.be/GjpI6tmIQco

    • You have partly described the ‘alt-right’, but the definition needs clarification.

      They are, like the sjws, identitarians believing that race is an essential element of civilisation. Their main target however is not Islam. They are lividly antisemitic. They are characterised by their use of codes such as putting (((parenthesise))) around words to mean Jewish.

      As an anti-racist anti-fascist I find them repulsive, but I am also anti-PC and see the mainstream media as indoctrinated in that postmodernist-Marxist thought.So am I a nazi?

      Yes the alt-right do tend to use symbols of Nordic or maybe Celtic origin, especially in Europe.

      I remind you that their greatest hate is for Jews, not Muslims. This is why comparing them to Nazis is appropriate.

      The use of the words ‘cuck’ ‘normies’ ‘libtards’ are not exclusive to the alt-right. Those words are very commonly used and harmless. I will define:
      ‘cuck’ is a general insult for anyone who doesn’t take dangers seriously, someone who isn’t manly, someone who kowtows to threats. (“Trudeau is a cuck”)

      ‘normies’ means little more than ‘normal’, but is used to mean someone who just follows the rules even when those rules are bad.It isn’t even a pejorative. (“Henry Bolton is a normie”)

      ‘libtard’ is an American pejorative for anyone who is very left wing and whose judgement is seen as faulty. It is a contraction of liberal and retard. (“Corbyn is a libtard”)

      ‘Political correctness’ is a part of postmodernist-Marxism. It is essentially fascist in nature in that it attempts to force everyone into the same behaviour and punishes free thought.

      I am against postmodernist-Marxism because I favour individual freedom and free speech. UKIP as a libertarian party must be against PC if it is to be true to its principles. This has nothing to do with being alt-right.

      As to AMW, let us remember that the Nazis introduced different laws for minorities, whereas AMW wishes to have the same laws for all. These are opposites.

      So, is AMW a hater of Jews? Does she use Nordic symbols? Does she want separate laws for minorities? Clearly, not. She is not alt-right. She is not a Nazi.

      However, David Kurten made an excellent speech against PC, is this a sign that he is alt-right?

      • You make a good argument. I would like AMW to engage in moderate and considered debate as its the only kind that will pass muster with the press and public. Lets just get real. I have no personal grievance with AMW.. But her delivery is too harsh. We are a broad church. I would like ALL members to engage in robust debate… and a few punch ups… but then after a pint, in the pub, agree to go forward with a semblance of unity. I think we can do that. We can argue but really, I think we are probably all on the same side. Your friend ! Mr Bav.

        • Well thank goodness for that, Mr Bav and all thanks to Liberas.
          It is indeed hard not to accept his very good argument. I fully support it and his argument is also mine.

          You are also right that members do need to have robust debate because there are many misunderstandings flying around at present and language is being misused on a whopping scale. Some need to brush up on definitions and employ appropriate vocabulary.

        • I agree with you.

          However, I suspect that AMW is so passionate about the subject that what to her is a moderate tone, will to others seem shrill and off putting. (Or to use another internet neologism, her comments sound like “autistic screeching” )

          Passions have run high in many, some have left.

          I am very curious what she will do. I am also curious what David Kurten will do, because I liked his conference speech a lot.

  13. “My point is that an informed opinion is worth far more than an uninformed one”. Well let the hierarchy ignore all members who are uninformed (rather like ‘Leave’ voters) and do what we want because we are informed and therefore our opinion is worth much more and we will then carry the day. Not much need for democracy then is there? At the time of the Tony Martin saga, there happened to be other instances featuring a similar scenario in and around London i.e. residents being attacked in their homes by violent criminals and the subject was “flavour of the month” with the MSM. The Home Secretary, the Met Police Commissioner and other ‘informed’ voices remained convinced that Martin got the 5 yrs clink that they thought he deserved. I thought that not to be the case and would surely be considered less ‘informed’ than the worthies I have listed. Nonetheless I pointed out in a letter to the Evening Standard details of a then fairly recent and similar case in which the jury found for the assailant. Despite in it’s time being of much public interest, this verdict had not been mentioned at Martin’s trial and I also commented that he had received ‘a less than energetic defence’. In short order I learned that he had been defended by a QC (presumably well informed) who was then President of the Bar Council. I noticed last week from news reports that a ‘hermit like’ resident living near Heathrow with his sister in a caravan, had killed a criminal intruder in “Martin” like circumstances. Rightly, he has not been charged with murder, only illegal possession of a shotgun. At the time of his action he was not to know that the assailant was possessed of a heavy mallet and a Molotov cocktail. Maybe sometimes the opinions of uninformed people are worth as much as those of us who are indeed ‘informed’. Maybe Direct Democracy is not such a bad policy.

  14. Bernard from Bucks. // October 3, 2017 at 9:31 am // Reply

    UKIP is probably short of a ‘few bob’ and needs to raise a bit of cash? Re-branding is one way to do it. Football clubs, sorry Football PLC’s, do it every season. New kit.
    Business’s do it all the time. Follow the money.
    Just think of all those T-shirts, pens, flags, badges and beer-mats (see UKIP shop for more) that will have to be replaced. Or am I being a bit too cynical?

  15. Say whatever you like, UKIP was very successfully tarred by the establishment as a right wing, racist and nasty party. We know that’s not true. The nation does not.
    We now have a new leader and a chance to make a difference again with fresh policies and an approach to solving the many problems our nation faces by again threatening establishment seats. It was that element of threat that gained us the referendum and helped win it. Protest groups, even if they tell the truth, never achieve anything. Like it or not we have to observe the rules of the competition in order to win.
    The strident so called “right wing” of the party believe they can gain public support with strong language, colourful candidates and loud noise. They are wrong. We are Brits and simply don’t have the temperament for that sort of thing. We did well because we were anti EU when no one else was. Now the big boys pretend to accept Brexit we can’t play that card and need to start again, though full and proper escape from the EU and all that comes with it will remain a priority.
    The bones are in place, fresh leadership and branding are a good start, no doubt we will loose some members but that is their loss as they sink into political oblivion whist we recover and move on.

    • I object to the term ‘right wing’ being used pejoratively. First the terms left and right are inexact when speaking of political ideologies and even political views. Second the media use the term right wing as abuse and never ever use left wing in the same way; often the evilbbc will speak of ‘far right’ hence code for nazi/neonazi but never ever refer to anybody as far left.
      Not Stalin not Kim Il Sung not Jeremy Corbyn.
      If there are groupings in UKIP it might be fair to speak of nationalists, perhaps ultranationalists, and patriots. On top of which there are of course the usual careerists and carpet baggers(opportunists). And not forgetting it being politics more than a dose of weirdos.
      As for myself I would claim to be a nationalist as I firmly believe in the nation state as the best building block for a democratic and free society.

  16. Tomaž ,

    I agree but there is no easy way out of the logo fiasco without bringing further bad publicity. However it does need to be addressed.

    Even more importantly, UKIP needs rid of Mr. Crowther and his cronies. If that were to happen then I would consider joining.

    Stout,

    Even more reasons for not joining UKIP is its present state.

    Hopefully the real (and intending) Kippers will find a new home soon.

  17. Tomaz

    Oh dear. I always find it ironic when somebody ends a diatribe “with respect” when clearly none is shown towards the object of your scorn.

    I don’t know Steve Crowther well, but I found his speech unveiling the new brand options to be one of the best I’ve heard: inspiring, entertaining, cogent, informed and compelling.

    Perhaps you are confusing democracy, where all votes carry equal weight, with opinions, where some are more valid than others. My point is that an informed opinion is worth far more than an uninformed opinion. Far more, in fact.

    Suppose there was evidence that the old brand was deemed old-fashioned and out of date (and out of touch). What would/should a leader do?

    How about commission a branding expert to assess the pros and cons of some alternatives, taking account of the fact that the target market was those potential members and voters to whom we do not currently appeal?

    Oh, wait. Steve Crowther IS a branding expert – exactly the sort of guy we would have been lucky to secure in developing our new brand presence.

    You do him a disservice. He deserves much credit.

    And as for the old UKIP brand being widely recognised, I see no chance of anybody failing to associate a brand that shouts UKIP in the actual logo itself being in any way confusing to the electorate.

    Honestly, I think we all owe a debt of gratitude for the work that Crowther and Oakden have done for the past few months in keeping the ship afloat, even though I suspect our choice of new leader will cause it to drift into a mist of obscurity in spite of having a new, modern and attractive brand.

    Incidentally, I was far from alone in expressing the opinion at Conference that we might have achieved a great deal with Steve Crowther at the helm as an elected leader, although I understand he did not wish to stand. With oratory of the quality we witnessed last week, I think he could have captured hearts and minds in much the way that Jacob Rees-Mogg is achieving for the Tories.

    • Quite why Steve Crowther attracts such hostility from certain sections of UKIP is difficult to understand. He stood forth when we were in dire straits, steadied the ship and steered the fractious and unruly Party to where it is today. We have a new and sensible leader, all the makings of a common-sense policy overhaul and we have dodged the bullet that was the takeover by those who would be labelled racist by a hostile and unthinking Press.

      UKIP owes Paul Oakden and Steve Crowther a great deal – men who put duty before their own interests at a critical time. It cannot have been easy.

      Gentlemen, thank you.

      JF

      • I agree with you Mister Flood that HB is sensible. That is a quality I admire in an accountant or a bank manager; what is more important is to see whether he has gumption and grease in being prepared to expand and make attractive the UKIP brand of politics.
        At least he is not vain and I note with respect he does not wear a wig.

      • Why does Crowther attract such hostility:

        Because he’s PETRIFIED by the media, who actually are the ones controlling UKIP aren’t they??…and so are you, it would seem.

        He steered the party to where it is today. Right….and where is that exactly Mr Flood? Led by Nigel(sorry, I mean, err, Henry, who?), I see thousands of new recruits to UKIP, don’t you? Reports from Challice at HO, poor chap can’t keep up with them. And the new leader must be absolutely knakkered after all those sunday political shows dragging him on for interviews. Still, who needs that much free publicity, eh.

        And you are all soooo lucky Anne Marie Waters failed in her bid, aren’t you? Remember her? unafraid of the boogie men msm. You could have been looking at a fresh new UKIP of hope for the future of our country…pheeeuw!

        To Crowther and Kippers who feel like that, for gosh sakes gentlemen: GROW A BACKBONE and blow the blo*dy doors off.

        • Miss Waters would have been chewed up and spat out by the MSM in a week. All her fans would then have whinged their way into obscurity moaning that it wasn’t fair, that people should have listened to her douce and plactory message because she wasn’t really racist and if they’d only understood… etc etc. It. Is. Not. Like. That.

          Painting a large target on your face and then asking the MSM to not shoot is an exercise in futility. Shoot is what they do.

          Let me be blunt. You go and blow the doors off. Then, when you’ve done that, come back and tell us all about it, together with the tally of the new recruits who are flocking to sign up. I’m sure Anne Marie will be happy to lead your new party, what with all the positive publicity it will get from Crick and that odd woman with lego hair*, and the Beeb, and the rest of the honest and straightforward Press.

          I won’t hold my breath.

          JF
          *I can never remember her name — she has a very aggressive manner and extraordinarily timid body postures. I think of her as Legolocks.

          • Its Cathy Newman.. .. I think she’s rather hot myself…. OK OK …I’ll get my coat…..

          • Pretty sure that once thay “blew the bloody doors off” they ended up on a cliff edge, about to fall to death? ?

          • Apart from Julian’s views on the gorgeous Legolocks I agree. Although AMW would certainly have attracted more media attention than Henry Bolton, who appears almost invisible, I doubt if she would have lasted beyond the week. Now Henry has exposed himself to attention by engaging in a Twitter-spat with Paul Weston where he implies that he served under fire in Helmand province. He does this again in his ‘UKIP official’ response to the Mandalay Bay killings, where he states (for reasons I don’t understand) that he served alongside the USMC. Let me be clear, I have no idea what Henry did in Afghanistan and probably don’t need to know, and I do not dispute his courage in any way, but he shouldn’t give Weston the time of day and certainly should not expose himself into an investigation as to his military bona-fides. If the press suspect he is ‘doing a Paul Nuttall’ they will get him.

          • “Crick .. the Beeb, and the rest of the honest and straightforward Press” (quoted from Julian Flood above).
            Many stories of immense importance are ignored by almost all the media. 30 years ago the vast majority had no way of knowing or finding things out easily. Thanks to the internet it is quite possible to realise these blank lacunae and with intelligence discover hidden agendas.
            The MSM are populated by lazy people and they jump to conclusions and take the easy options. Even when they do serious investigations such as Crick did vis-a-vis Thanet South tory overspends the whole matter is brushed away after a short exposure.
            Most people do not want to make a fuss so something has to get to a critical juncture before anything is done. We ignore whistleblowers and soothsayers at our peril.
            Given the state of the world and the difficult position the UK is in I expect that the determined forces of ukip type parties in Finland; Austria; Netherlands; Switzerland; Denmark;Poland; Hungary; and above all AfD in Germany will destroy the EU and the various secretive protocols whilst we slumber in our beds for the next dozen years.
            Wake up and see what is happening, you do not have to like Trump to realise that those opposed to him have not stopped attempts to impeach him since the day after the election.
            The same kinds of people in the media and metropolitan liberal circles are hell bent on stopping BREXIT. There is no room for complacency and no room to describe fellow travellers as neonazis.

          • Julian you haven’t been following AMW as long as I have. She would have been the one doing the chewing given half a chance.

      • It is strange.

        Many people who haven’t really had any first hand experience of dealing with the consequences of Messrs Crowther and Oakden’s actions and decisions think that they’re wonderful.

        And many who have witnessed and had to deal with the consequences of Messrs Crowther and Oakden’s actions and decisions close at hand over quite some period of time, think they aren’t.

        Do you think that there’s a little clue there?

    • Don’t know if this is an appropriate place to say this, but I’ll be leaving UKIPD alone from now on, and wanted to wish you all the best. It’s by far the best of the UKIP-related sites, and I am in awe of how Viv and her team manage to keep updating comments seemingly 24 hours per day, so that we are able to access fresh opinion while it is still warm.

      Many thanks Viv.

      My membership will lapse this month and I shan’t be renewing as Bolton bores me to death. His lack of courage in tackling islam and scandalous slurs aimed at those who see it as an existential threat just turns me right off.

      Goodbye and good luck. I am doing as icini and the rest would wish, and leaving quietly and without fuss.

      • Thanks, Grummy, for your kind words for the UKIPD team!
        I do wish you’d keep visiting and commenting on UKIPD – we’re not like certain other sites which are closed to non-members, and we do welcome and desire debate, even if it sometimes reaches boiling point.

      • Good luck and thanks to you, Grummy. You speak for many.

      • Good luck Grummy and all the very best for your future plans.
        It was a pleasure to read your comments.
        Democracy is all about argument, opinion, information, facts, disagreement, perspective,and of course what changes everything …
        EVENTS and we can expect those aplenty in these times of whirlygig change.

        • Thanks CK and Quercus for your kind words. And thanks too to David Allen below for making me laugh. Being patronised by one of the leadership pseudo-candidates is one of the joys I shall miss.

      • Maybe after just three days of leadership, is it not just a litle premature to describe Henry Bolton as ‘lacking courage in tacking Islam’? Then again, do I detect a degree of sour grapes, because your preferred candidate lost, and lost by some significant margin and it is always comforting to indulge in some self-serving, unsubstantiated muck slinging. You refer to ‘scandalous slurs’ confusing pointed criticism with the comments you have just made. The Daily is a place of thoughtful debate and best kept that way.

        • With regards to ‘scandalous slurs’ could anyone confirm that Henry Bolton fought in the badlands of Helmand as he appears to be implying he did according to this Twitter exchange between HB and Paul Weston. I would like some clarification if anyone knows because we can’t have the leader of UKIP inventing stories along the lines of Hilary Clinton and dodging sniper fire.
          https://twitter.com/paulwestonlibgb

          • He was attached to the US Marines in Helmand as a civilian advisor to the targetting command. He did two tours totalling 27 months.

        • You make UKIP sound like some sort of retirement home for people tired of the cut and thrust of political life.

          No David, UKIPD is precisely the place for criticising things and people, in the interests of some good coming out of it in the end. Let’s face it, there is nowhere else for ordinary members to vent their spleen, since we no longer have a Member’s Forum. Thanks again, Viv.

          The reason so many people are quitting is because their party has ceased to be radical. Don’t know how long you have been in UKIP David but I remember when we were all called closet clowns and racists(or similar, who cares) – and the leader at the time thought it was hilarious!

          Now – oh God, heaven help us – the media want to call UKIP nasty names – again. And…..?

          I don’t know what UKIP wants to do now – I really don’t. Survive? I guess. Seeing as how it’s now no different to Tories and Labour about THE subject millions are worried about, well, good luck with that.

      • …Grummy I will also miss you. You are just the sort of person UKIP cannot afford to lose.

        Maybe David Allen ( also a thoroughly sensible guy, who I have had some previous proper dialogue with and would welcome the opportunity for more ) could persuade his boy HB to suddenly develop some real political courage and request that my girl AMW comes with him at the helm. 3874 votes to 2755 is not exactly convincing is it !

        If this was to be done, that would be initiative taking, that would be bold, that would give us plenty of MSM air time. Or is my imagination just a wee bit too colourful.

    • Did I read this right?

      I always find it ironic when somebody ends a diatribe “with respect” when clearly none is shown

      Political correctness gone mad – it is standard writing practice for crying out loud.

      Yours sincerely (if that is acceptable)
      Biscotte

  18. New logo.
    In my experience people concerning themselves with new logos are ones that have no clue as to what else to do. They hope it creates the impression that they are busy.
    We don’t need a new logo. We need a long and medium term strategies to ensure Brexit happens and to identify the next threat to our national sovereignty.
    Which as far as I’m concerned is Islam.

    • Totally agree – no requirement to change the logo.

      And on the busy front, don’t forget the new mission statement!
      The best one I have seen is not four pages of guff, 400 or a 4,000 pages common market version.

      Just four words:
      – Set standards and lead

    • Well said Harry.

  19. Amazingly I agree with both Stout and Tomaz on the same morning!

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