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STOKE-ON-TRENT: THE RESULTS

The aftermath of the by-election and where do we go from here

Let’s start with the numbers before we start with the post-mortem:

Gareth Snell (Lab) 7,853 (37.09%, -2.22%)

Paul Nuttall (UKIP) 5,233 (24.72%, +2.07%)

Jack Brereton (C) 5,154 (24.35%, +1.80%)

Zulfiqar Ali (LD) 2,083 (9.84%, +5.67%)

Turn-out 38%

At the time of writing, I have not been able to find any mention of the postal votes count for Stoke. We do know however that the Stoke Council issued 6,400 postal ballots, as reported here.

While the papers predictably are full of praise for the Labour win, let’s jump in to the post-mortem with both feet.

A large number of members have been working their socks off in Stoke. Yesterday evening I was told that we had ‘300 activists on the ground’.

Labour’s campaign manager, a certain Jack Dromey, told The Mirror that Labour had 500 activists. So did we lose because we had fewer boots on the ground? Allow me to doubt it!

What we didn’t have, yet again, was fair dealings by the MSM. Sour grapes? Not at all.

While Paul Nuttall was indeed ‘hounded by the Press’ – not just after the results, as The Mirror so gleefully reports – but ever since the campaign officially started, nothing of the sort happened to the Labour candidate whose various tweets before and during the campaign (for example that Brexit was ‘sh*t’) were deemed to be of no import. One had to go to the alt-media to read about that.

Instead we heard day-in-day out about Hillsborough, and about Paul ‘lying’ about an event which happened nearly 30 years ago – because in the minds of our Metropolitan MSM, the run-down state of Stoke after decades of Labour MPs doesn’t matter at all. Social housing? Forget about it. Huge influx of muslim immigrants? No matter. Interference by imams telling their members to vote Labour or go to hell? Aww, who cares. Well, the Libdems did, and even complained to the police, as reported herewhere you can also read the text of the leaflet. Did our metropolitan MSM report this? Of course not!

But there was more, far more. We remember the hounding of Paul Nuttall about his residence. That was national news, thanks to the investigative reporter Mr Michael Crick. Not reported in the national MSM were the attacks and attempted break-ins after Mr Crick so generously published the actual address.

What we also weren’t told – it’s only now being  described in an article here – were reports of our shop in Stoke being vandalised repeatedly, of Police having to be called in again and again. There’s also this astonishing bit of information:

“Stoke-on-Trent North Labour MP Ruth Smeeth was once the secretary of HNH and remains a director of the group.”

‘HNH’ is that group called ‘Hope Not Hate’, a group with the sole aim to keep UKIP out. Let’s just, for a moment, imagine that former BNP members were known to have attacked and vandalised the office of the Labour candidate … would the national MSM have discreetly been silent? You know the answer!

Here then is our first conclusion in this post-mortem: We are not playing on a level playing field. The establishment and their MSM are doing their utmost to keep out UKIP and to destroy UKIP candidates personally any way they can. This goes from not having UKIP spokespeople on their politics shows unless they think they can show us up, to never mentioning, never mind debating, our policies. This happened in 2015 at the GE, and it is happening  again and again. That will not change.

Add to this the organisations like HNH and UAF (“United Against Fascism”), who literally act like storm troopers. Add to this the tired lie (again used by the new Stoke MP) of us being racists. Add to this the way our candidates’ pasts are being scrutinised to an extent which even the squeaky-cleanest person, if they’ve actually had a life, could not withstand, with malevolent misinterpretation thrown in – and we are where we are.

But let’s be a bit self-critical here as well.

Yes, many members went and worked their socks off in Stoke and Copeland. Many others, especially many would-be supporters however preferred to sit this out, as comment posts on MSM articles (not on UKIP Daily) made clear. Their gist was that, well, let’s wait and see and if UKIP doesn’t win then that was it … we won’t renew our membership … UKIP is a busted flush …

Our infighting during the summer last year put many people off.

Our inability to actually formulate policies – or rather: the unwillingness of ‘those on top’ – to pick up ideas and proposals from members disillusioned many people.

Then there’s the huge elephant in the room: what actually are our policies? Where are they?

I do not mean some nice manifestos which get completely disregarded, as yesterday’s result showed yet again, just as in the GE results. I mean actual policies reflecting the points made by Nigel Farage in his speech at Conference, where he said:

“If UKIP is not a radical party it will be nothing. We must not become Mainstream.”

And

“We must be seen as the party against political correctness. We must be seen as the party that moves the debate on.”

We haven’t done that – and it looks as if we are too scared to actually do it.

Does yesterday’s result not show yet again that we will never win by trying to become ‘mainstream’, acceptable to the metro elites, the MSM, to the metro-establishment? Isn’t it obvious that we will never win by playing according to their rules?

This is not working! It hasn’t worked and will never work.

So let’s ditch the establishment’s play-book, including the play-book of our own Party’ establishment. Let’s become radical. Let’s stop trying to belly-ache about being Tory-lite or Labour-lite. Let’s address the issue which so many people up and down the country see as the most pressing one: immigration. Let’s remember that we’re for the people, not the mainstream, the establishment and their MSM!

If we’re too scared to do that, then, I’m afraid, UKIP really is a busted flush. Then, I’m afraid, we do not deserve to win. 

So: courage! We really have nothing to lose!

 

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About Vivian Evans (258 Articles)
Vivian is a UKIP patron, Vice Chair of UKIP Cardiff and Editor in Chief of UKIP Daily

79 Comments on STOKE-ON-TRENT: THE RESULTS

  1. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4257642/We-winning-Nigel-Farage-sends-crowd-wild.html

    UKIP as it is destined to end up marooned on the sidelines of a massive change. Outdated and outthunked due to timidity.

  2. Daily Politics asked UKIP for a representative on their show today but nobody (yes, nobody) was available. So they had to settle for Diane James.

    You couldn’t make it up.

  3. There is so much potential re policy but my impression is that things do not get followed up. For example, the impact on our countryside and green spaces of mass immigration. There is nobody really speaking about this or providing a political voice to those who see our wildlife and environment being destroyed under the sheer weight of people coming into the country. There is a huge section of people who are not represented on this because the left will never acknowledge it. UKIP should become the champion of the green belt and countryside in order to protect it for the future. There have been good words about this but it does not seem to gain traction into a properly organised and followed through policy initiative.

    • CP, you are absolutely spot on. The Greens are too mindlessly PC to point out the obvious effects of more and more immigration, so I really do not see the point of them. UKIP should take up the slack on this issue.

  4. Thanks Vivian for another excellent, direct and insightful article.

    In particular, your references to the unceasingly antagonistic activism of the MSM against UKIP reminded me of what John Rees-Evans wrote, in UKIP Daily on Nov 18 2016, in his reply to a YI question:

    “If I am elected as leader, I will immediately begin the process of creating UKIP’s own internal media organisation, that will be equipped to generate our own international production quality, highly compelling output, and which will largely negate the need to rely on cooperation from the mainstream media when communicating our party’s vision. We should never have to pander to the mainstream media or allow them to emasculate our message, by filtering out whatever doesn’t serve the Establishment’s agenda.If we do this, we will quickly become indistinguishable from the other parties and will be rendered a political irrelevance.

    I will therefore prioritise building a highly organised social media network of UKIP volunteers that leverages all of the power of all available social media channels; word, video and graphic/imagebased. And I will use these channels to begin immediately campaigning towards the next General Election, and drawing in support, whether that is to happen in May 2017, or in 2020.”

    Highly prescient words it seems to me; and apparently totally ignored by the current leadership.

    • Howard, as I pointed out on another thread, if Mr. Nuttall had not so pig-headedly ignored John R-E I doubt if the Hillsborough fiasco would have happened at all. John would have forensically gone through all social media stuff – Mr Nuttall is the architect of his own disaster.
      Your quotation above has just rubbed salt in the wound which Mr Nuttall has inflicted on all who worked so hard to achieve victory in Stoke. It’s no good ducking it, or trying to make excuses, it’s the truth, and anyone who is able ought to make it clear to MrNuttall.
      I know Viv has said further down that it would do no good to replace Nuttall, but after a day reflecting on little else I am struggling to see how, having listened to comments from voters, UKIP can ever have credibility under his leadership – like it or not, he is now tagged as a liar in the public mind.
      We might even do better if he stepped down voluntarily and was replaced by Evans, who came second, and at least can string a sentence together coherently. If she brought John in, as her Deputy, I think his followers might get over the Evans thing.
      If might be the only way UKIP can credibly continue without another leadership contest. At least she opposes Sharia Law.

    • Correct Howard – TOTALLY IGNORED.

    • Well they are persuading me, I have to say.
      Not that communications are ALL we need but they are a sine qua non.

      If the Leadership does not now GRAB WITH BOTH HANDS what J R~E is offering then there really is no hope.

  5. As May(or her clever advisors)have noticed Class Politics Trumps identity(or grievance)politics. In the U.S. Donald ripped apart the libtards,and their M.S.M.megaphones.He did this,meanwhile getting free advertising from his biggest enemy,as he not only told them what he was doing,but expressed contempt for the lying media.
    Never letting go of the message’Make America great again’,this patriotic cry,combined with a signposting of some of the threats facing them-such as uncontrolled or illegal immigration,Islam,Finance Capital’s pernicious influence, etc-was enough to break through the enormous blob of the establishment:corporate AND leftist ideological force combined.
    This near miraculous achievement can be replicated here,but not without the courage and imagination to slough off the ‘respectable’ old-time politics and address ordinary people honestly.
    Nuttall should,as others have observed,take John Rhys and Anne Marie into the leadership;ignoring the siren calls of ‘play it safe’,’don’t mention Islam’ or other dead- ends we must be truthful, all else is vanity.

  6. Excellent, Viv, thanks for that. We need to accept that the days of being a countrywide protest tide are long over, and the leadership has to focus brutally on those areas where we are not only strong, but also where there is a caucus of competent, at least semi professional, politicians. And build back up from those hotspots. Spelthorne sounds like a case in point.
    In the face of continuing manic hostility from Hate not Soap, and their fellow travellers in the media, we have got to get harder mentally, and a lot more disciplined. The refusal to take in JRE and his supporters is just silly and bloody minded, and allows us to be continually represented as Dad’s’ Army, which frankly is often not far from the truth. With the Mayite Tories the only ones currently able to deliver Brexit, we have to produce a package of half a dozen major policies(and not incl reducing the price of fish and chips) and bang on about them relentlessly. Full constitutional reform needs to be one, incl reform of postal voting. As long as that scam is in play, we will NEVER win anything significant. Hope to see you on 5th!

    • Please see my suggestions re Policies in my article to be published here Sun or Mon..
      I list three but PR should certainly be a 4th ( maybe first on the List albeit I ascribe equal importance to them ).
      we should campaign for PR.
      We should also LITIGATE in respect of the grossly undemocratic decision to accord us zero Lords when we have so much greater support than the Libs who have about 100 Lords.

  7. Some in UKIP dream of making it an ‘electable’ party, want to moderate the message and lose its ‘toxic’ brand. These are careerists, people who yearn for positions of power, authority and wealth, who want to occupy those positions. The kind of people who boast of their entry in Debretts. And then there are the conviction people, who stand up for principle at the expense of popularity, for whom the tide of history is at their backs but who are destined to exert influence vicariously, to have their policies adopted by other political parties who can then implement them. I for one would much prefer to keep my integrity and be in the second group rather than be a sell-out.

  8. The wrong conclusion/ lessons(s) are still being drawn by many people. This is coupled with denial syndrome.

    Blaming the MSM during the campaign is one thing but it is another when the election’s over. Otherwise we are blind to our own faults.

    And what has Carswell to do with Paul’s defeat?

    The problem with UKIP is two-fold: policy and image.

    There is a need to de-toxify the UKIP brand with the right policies f we are to reach out beyond our ‘peaked’ support, i.e. the wider working class that have not yet decided to go UKIP despite voting to leave. Both policy and image stand or fall together.

    • The irony is that Carswell’s classical liberalism is almost synonymous with libertarianism. I, for one, do not subscribe to classical liberalism but believe that in the post-Nigel era, Carswell has a point.

      Nigel isn’t coming back as leader and there is a need to come to terms with the new reality. The ‘cult of Nigel’ worked for a while and rightfully so but that was appropriate (only) for UKIP in the pre-Brexit era.

      If we keep insisting of things as they were, then there is the paradoxical risk that Nigel’s legacy would fade into irrelevance for want of translating his sloganeering into concrete policies for the working class.

      For it cannot and should not be the case that whilst we rail against Big Finance, our economic policies are driven by the same logic that favours corporate welfare over the people’s welfare.

      That is, touting slogans without real, meaningful, matching substance puts us in exactly the same category as Momentum, that group of hardline socialists who are all into ideological purity. And we risk becoming irrelevant as time goes by.

      Ideological purity just for sake of being ideological right without any consideration of the consequence or impact on the lives of people is not what UKIP is for. Better for UKIP to come clean and go back to its pre-Eastleigh by election days ….. better for the libertarians in the NEC and rank-and-file to be frank and declare that UKIP should be/ is the True Conservative Party (Continuing) ….. you know, the authentic voice of the right-wing of the Tory Party …..

  9. In my humble opinion, many people are still drawing the wrong conclusion/ lesson(s), I’m afraid.

    But firstly, let us stop the blame game – the MSM, Carswell, lack of local candidate. What has Carswell to do with Paul’s defeat in the first place?

    And blaming the MSM during the campaign is one thing, but it’s another when the election’s over. For otherwise it would mean that we are blind to our faults.

    We have to move beyond the groupthink that is characteristic of the EU. Slogans without substance cannot take the Party very far and risks, nay in fact does hurt our prospects in the end – for we’ll be seen for who/ what we are …..

    Which brings me to the point that the problem is two-fold: policy and image.

    The lessons of Stoke and even Copeland is that there is a critical need to come up with the right policies for the working class which at the same time serves to de-toxify the UKIP brand amongst the wider working class that UKIP has yet to reach.

    • What is the wider working class?
      Does it include the 10 million or so people who run small businesses? Or the few million people employed by them? Or the few million more self employed traders who deliberately trade “below” the VAT threshold?

      I only ask because UKIP seems incapable of developing an economically coherent policy that offers them any incentive to vote for ukip. Listening to PN at Bolton. Chips and sanitary products? Dear God. And a 38% turnout.

      I do agree with every comment that puts immigration control (and resultant capacity impacts) near the heart of UKIP’s objectives but I do wonder why we are apparently so incapable of deflecting the constant racist accusations.

      We are the “when in Rome…” Party, aren’t we?

      We oppose the racial segregation that Blair encouraged in the name of multiculturalism, and we similarly oppose gender-based inequality on religious grounds that the main Parties presumably support.

      Yet we are the extremists?

      I also think we should take every opportunity to remember the poor Muslim man murdered last year in Glasgow for wishing his customers a happy Easter. It’s the murderer we want to see brought to justice. And the motivation. Not the Muslim.

      Sadly I fear we have to conclude that the ukip organisation simply isn’t up to it. The leadership certainly isn’t. And As Viv says, we’re not anything very much policy wise.

      I wonder Mr Banks has up his sleeve…. JRE perhaps. Now there’s a thought.

  10. 4 Conservative councillors at Spelthorne Borough Council in Surrey defected to UKIP today – a small shaft of sunlight from the gloomy sky overhead politically.

    • The UKIP operation in Surrey and in Spelthorne in particular is a copybook example of how to do it, despite the demographic that does not favour UKIP

  11. There is only one issue in British politics. Immigration. That was true 30 years ago and it’s the same now. Everything else is a subsidiary result of it. NHS, housing, schools, PC transport. Discussing those things without immigration being there as the central focus is like discussing rising water in the Titanic without mentioning the hole in the hull.

    • True Mike, but it’s not enough alone. Even with the EU, it was never enough to win us elections.
      We have to get smart on the other issues too.

    • You are SO right.
      hence my favourite policy:
      A total ( or almost ) MORATORIUM on all new immigration from whatever source for five years whilst we seek to alleviate the dire housing shortage.
      See my full paper on Sunday / Monday in these columns.
      ( Tho’ why do we bother ? No sign the Leadership pays the blindest bit of attention ……:( )

  12. Dear dear Viv, before I read the comments, I must just sayll thank you for this Brave article, which goes to the heart of the matter.
    UKIP will probably never form a Government, will never be loved by all, any more than we have ever been. As with the EU, UKIPs job and duty is to say it as it is, to point out the trouble with immigration and lIslamization, and to say what we would do about it without being afraid.
    There are people, I believe, who would be happy to take the flak and do this, they just aren’t in the Top Team. And they wont be, unless UKIP funders make clear,that’s what has to happen.
    We will never get a reasoned reporting from,the Press, but imagine how easy it would be to send our message -‘they will do the job for us!

    • Trump’s victory ~against ALL the odds, against even his own party, against ALL the MSM would certainly lend support to your view.
      He never wavered in his approach.
      ( Btw I dislike him intensely as a person ).
      Please see my full article on Sunday or Monday with a few KEY policies I believe we should adopt, for clarity, for differentiation from Lab/Con, but most of all because I believe they are the right policies for the country.

  13. This was a bad case of hubris it seems to me. Following Brexit Nuttall talked as though seats were in the bag in the north. Just represent as a respectable mainstream party and avoid controversy. Keep it PC. In reality one UKIP MP could do nothing for the people of Stoke. No money no power. The right pitch was make a protest against the parties destroying your country and way of life. You might not win but you come out glorious with a radical message for the whole country. Something to build on. I fear Paul Nuttall does not want to do that at all. He never wanted to be leader anyway. But got carried away with it all when he was.

    No big change no hope.

    • You can protest all you like Mike, but in the end you have to have policies, and ours weren’t radical enough.

      • I’m saying the same thing for goodness sake Quercus! Policies can be radical and call for a protest in support of them can they not!! Here’s our radical policies. Excoriate all you like MSM. That is the only way forward. ‘Trimming’ don’t work and especially now when things are changing so fast but the siren calls appear in every outsider party to go respectable. Nuttall fell for it. He could have lost and come out a hero. VAT on fish n chips was the indicator.

        Funny game politics.

        • And the more radical yr policies the more essential it is to WEAR A TRADITIONAL SMART BUSINESS SUIT ( per late Tony Benn as it happens ).
          I look at several other online discussions such as spectator.co.uk telegraph mail etc..
          You would be really surprised how many mention the appalling brown tweed suit and cloth cap.

  14. I absolutely agree with this article and Nigels speech. The problem has been party unity at the price of our spirit. UKIP must be the party that says what the public are not allowed to say, and that means we will always be the enemies of the mainstream media.

    The most meaningful and dramatic gesture Nuttall can now make is the expulsion of Douglas Carswell, who embodies the problem.

    • No point in sacking Carswell. Cordon him off. In any case he will resign before the GE and then stand as a Tory. Whilst on the subject, a big hand again for Mark Reckless, who in my opinion has been exemplary in his behaviour, and I’d like to hear a bit more from him.

      • I agree with you about Mark R..
        But again ~ why does he publish nothing on this site ?
        He is in the UKIP group of AMs I believe, in Wales ? Why do they not post their news and views on here ?
        Is there ANY connection between this site and the Leadership ?

      • Another Thatcherite, Sussex.
        Whatever his attributes, he’s not going to produce economic policies which will appeal sufficiently to working people.

  15. Please, somebody give me chapter and verse on “Radical” believe me I haven`t a clue and thereby as a leaflet pusher and market place canvasser, I am a salesman trying to push a product I know nothing about.
    Yes. I was well clued up on Brexit and I suppose we were “relevant” then, in fact so much so that the first thing Magpie May did was to pinch all our policies (well some of `em)
    The results last night IMHO indicate how astute Magpie actually is, UKIP`s apparent strength in the North getting all those second places in the GE and even making it a Tory free zone was founded on a cross party desire of the electorate not just to get a referendum, but to take the next step and actually do the deed and leave the EU – in the North particularly, UKIP benefitted from this yearning coupled with a deep distrust of all Westminster failed legacy parties, but most of all Cameron in person who was toxic in his duplicity.
    Hey Presto – Vote LEAVE won, Cameron was gone, Magpie flew across the pond cemented her party`s conversion to Brexit by cuddling up to the most obnoxious radical (anti -establishment common peoples` friend) person she could find, so that her party is now locked in to this NEW image of Conservatism
    It`s brilliant Cameron was the heir to Blair, he`s gone but his party remains, so when she nicked UKIP`s Brexit she not only tempted back a load of her previous renegades, but she also fulfilled the wishes of the Labour party deserters who also wanted Brexit.
    Hence the result last night.
    North no longer a Tory free zone, any that had helped UKIP to get all those second places -safely back with mother magpie in the nest. Some labour Deserters back home, some sat on their hands and didn`t turn out and dare I say it some went to the Liberals (UKIP only got 4th place in Copeland)
    My conclusion, there is no point in UKIP trying to be a Labour “look-alike”) we have to remain anti-establishment and that means anti failed legacy parties – they are still at heart duplicious lackeys of the EU and EU ideology.
    UKIP`s task is to get the EU THINK out of our whole system, starting with our schools, whatever purpose we come up with, in my opinion will be irrelevant if we don`t get rid of EU THOUGHT and SPEAK – they are the real enemy within.
    Oh and PC as well, saw a good programme on Channel4 last night Trevor MacDonald assisted by Nigel Farage.
    Back as leader next week?

    • Roger
      ‘Radical’ in our context simply means fundamental enough to make a real difference. Other essential requisites for us are clear and catchy enough to get attention, and canny enough to get lots of votes.
      That’s what I’ve been going on about. I’m all for anti-establishment for goodness sake, but your hostility to anything which smacks of being ‘Labour look-alike’ will simply deny us any chance of power.
      Come on think, people. If we want to stop mass immigration we have to get working people onside – and if you think we’re going to do that with Tory policies you’re bonkers.

    • It wasn’t Trevor MacDonald, Roger, it was Trevor ‘islamophobia’ Phillips. See my reaction to this programme on the “Just What Is Fake News” page, in a response to you.

  16. Good informative article Viv, thank you. Like the irony with the LibDems – I wonder how their successors will fare under the caliphate to come.

    Yes immigration, yes radical – but radical what? We didn’t offer anything different for working people, and we’re pretty daft not to see it.
    And Paul? It’s the thing about the truth that’s all important. Sorry, he should now step down for Peter pending a new election in the autumn.
    But we also need a democratic policy-making re-appraisal to get us back on track.

  17. Carswell told us on Question Time that Stoke Central wasn’t in UKIP’s top 50 target seats and Oakden said, on the radio, that it wasn’t even in the top 70. I never heard any of this beforehand. All I seemed to hear was that Stoke was Brexit’s capital and UKIP was now the party of the working class.

    But even if it was the case (that Stoke wasn’t in our top 50/70 targets) why on earth did UKIP put up our leader as the candidate? Surely the obvious action would be to show loyalty to the candidate at the General Election who had some connection with the city, most particularly as, anyway, the seat won’t exist after the boundary changes come into effect. My guess is that Nuttall listened to comments by the media that he would be “chicken” if he didn’t stand. And he fell for it.

    As for whether Nuttall is the right leader, well the 50% of UKIP’s membership who bothered to vote in the leadership election obviously think (thought?) he is so we’re going to have to live with that choice. Let’s hope, though, that he and his cohorts learn from this and make sure, as has been said, that we become the radical party once again.

    • I think last summer Hillsborough~gate and Unfurnished Principal Residence ~ gate hadn’t happened.

      The PhD and Footballing ~gates had been heard of but then lost sight of, so one could be forgiven for thinking they were dead as issues for the future.

      But then the more recent Unforced Errors of H gate and UPR – gate took place and between them allowed the PhD / Footballing claims to be revisited and all piled together in a box marked ‘Trust’.

      I HATE even thinking it, but I just don’t see ( please enlighten me someone who can see ) a mechanism for stopping these GATES from being banged open and shut forever and a day into the future.

      ? Maybe if we have half a dozen strong, coherent, differentiated, Policies to grab attention ?
      Wd that work to shut and lock firmly the creaky Gates ????

      PS : absenting oneself from Hustings organized locally not a good look………… And why would you even do it ?
      The half dozen Hustings I participated in during the Gen Election in Bishop Auckland were actually the most enjoyable part, as far as I was concerned.
      I got quite fond of my opponents – there was something very English about it all. I was sad the Greens and LibDems gents lost their deposits ( hope their parties picked up the tab.)
      Ah les beaux jours !

  18. Another thing: I think a big reason that the policy direction is so unclear is that there are now so many spokesmen for each individual policy area that a single, coherent narrative is very difficult to present. Each person vies for attention for their small fiefdom but in doing so we fail to see the wood for the trees. The Bolton conference agenda was a perfect example of this, a series of 10-15 minute slots for each spokesman but without a keynote session delivering a coherent policy theme. Many of the themes cut across each other, so by dividing the cake up into so many pieces the power of each is reduced. The key areas like economy and immigration are relegated to the same level as every other individual policy area, and an equal amount of resources put into each, rather than prioritising. At least, that is how it appears from the outside. What is needed is a smaller leadership group of the truly important policy areas supported by a central research team generating insights into what is really happening in our country (official statistics have long since been politicised) and radical policies to match.

    • Good point about Conference.
      I wd suggest the Autumn one needs to be three full days, and to involve good opportunities in fringe sessions for Q and A type FEEDBACK and contributions from the rank and file so that the Leadership can Learn from our Wisdom !

      In fact, warming to my theme, I think that the Q and A sessions need to take place on the first day and a half, and the full on Speeches from the Platform scheduled for the last day and a half – hopefully so that the Spokespersons on the main Policy areas can reflect on what the membership have suggested.

      Of course, members need not attend the full duration of Conference if they prefer to just come for one or two full days.
      And it should be somewhere like Newcastle or Gateshead or Hartlepool.
      We absolutely MUST bang on about wanting to invade Labour’s territory.
      With a MUCH stronger message, unapologetically delivered, I believe this is still possible.

  19. The combined votes of UKIP and the Tories exceeded that of Labour by some 3000 votes. The case for a pact remains strong

  20. Thinnish Free-Thinker // February 24, 2017 at 9:35 am // Reply

    UKIP members (62% of those who voted in the leadership election) must take some of the blame.

  21. I was so disappointed by the New Path for Britain document, who writes this stuff, truly awful! On the economy, the solutions are removal of VAT from energy, takeaways and tampons??? Are you kidding me??? This makes UKIP look kind of pathetic and speaks volumes about the disarray and lack of direction from the current leadership. I was hoping things were back on track, but after seeing that document, I realised that huge problems remained. I guess it was put out to fill the perceived void in policy but all it does is make clear to the public that such a void exists. UKIP needs to be radical, not focus on tampons and takeaways!!!!

    • Ain’t that the truth.
      Maybe the feminine hygiene products is a valid one – but it just SCREAMS ‘Political Correctness, we have arrived and are firmly lodged in your Building’

    • The title is mediocre with no great impact in my view. I also get the feeling that there is a lack of understanding of what the EU actually is. The Aid budget for instance has nothing to do with the EU. There are also many directives which came VIA the EU but which we would still be bound by after we leave. They come from the UN Sustainable Development program called Agenda 2030 which G Brown calls a New World Order (see youtube). UKIP should be aware that these include amongst other things procurement and migrants whose control will NOT be wholly returned when we leave the EU. We should be preparing for this with policies even if this means not complying with the UN “one size fits all” idea of the world. These are some of the main reasons for the Brexit vote which UKIP needs to pursue in my view.

  22. Paul was 12 at Hillsborough, it’s irrelevant, as was the electoral residence. He never claimed to have a PhD or to have played first division football.
    Sad about his old comments on the health service, the false claims we want to privatise it will continue to be believed by many Labour supporters. Any UKIP leader is going to be subjected to minute examination and smeared if he or she so much as dropped a sweet paper and few people are clean as the driven snow.
    I hate to tell you but rants against muslims will not win more votes, it will simply increase the shouts of “racism”. We are challenging the whole establishment here, with unlimited money and influence and they play very dirty indeed, they also largely “own” the MSM. We need to tell the truth, loudly but clearly calmly and politely, there is nothing in our policy position to be ashamed of.
    You will note the media have hyped up this election to the point that we would be finised if we failed to win. Absolute rubbish.
    What we need is continuity, not a new leader, that really would finish us. Nigel was teflon, no one else we have can achieve that quality of shaking off establishment smears.

  23. Didn’t expect to see this at this venue. The corporate-media is the key. Quite obviously it is weaponised, and focused on retarding UKIP by misrepresentation to the public, and it is coordinated with the LibLabCon political parties. (The Express, the only exception, looks like it is taking lessons from Breitbart). So, what to do about it? Firstly, we can make it be more responsive to market forces. That’ll take a period when we don’t engage in it. Abandon the TV, tear up the SKY deal, stop paying the tax, stop taking the newspaper. This has to be done, or UKIP will never prosper.

    When the UKIP “high-ups” appear on the Establishment’s propaganda platforms to reach out to the hypnotised masses, they should make trouble, get aggressive with the truth. What they talk about will stem from policy, and will reflect a concern to reveal to the public the extent of the Establishment’s ways and means of deception. So for instance, UKIP should advocate vaccine safety, and talk about the MMR/autism link. There’s plenty that the Establishment doesn’t want to talk about because of potential to bust it wide open.

  24. It is not just Paul’s personal list of incorrect facts, we have always been over scrutinised, it is the leadership methodologies. We cannot act like current mainstream parties, we need a cause and there are plenty. UKIP members are unlike other PP members, we are not sheep, we are here with a purpose. If Paul stays as leader he needs to take radical action and quickly because without a real purpose UKIP membership will go very rapidly. The above letter very neatly lists our problems; policies, people and purpose.

    I always thought it was wrong for the leader of UKIP to chase a seat before we established the fact that we can push forward but I’m willing to let that go (I think) if there are changes. Status quo? No!

  25. Its all very easy to say not to criticise Nuttall but he must take some of the blame. UKIP have been dealt a massive blow and one I don’t feel they can recover from unless something drastic happens. Nigel had very big shoes to fill and there is no one in UKIP that can come close.

  26. Viv,

    I agree wholeheartedly about being radical; the invasion of Islam aided by its supporter Political Correctness need to be reversed and soon.

    We are at a stage where repatriation of the invader is already near impossible; leave it much longer and we will have already lost the war.

    We don’t yet need a Nazi style solution; much can be done by assisted relocation with benefits continuing for a time and a little coercion, but time is short and their numbers are being allowed to grow by the day.

  27. Bravo! Well said, Vivian!

  28. So it has been confirmed that Nuttall lied in respect of losing friends at Hillsborough. Obviously his apology was not sufficient; he should never have lied in the first place.
    UKIP was always going to be a target for those on the left who will try to discredit it by all means, fair or foul. Why give them ammunition through a stupid lie?
    Labour might be supported by a bunch of ignorant tribal voters but Stoke should still have been an open goal.
    Clearly Nuttall lacks the necessary integrity for the post of leader, whatever his other qualities might be and certainly showed a lack of common sense. It will bring another period of uncertainty to UKIP but he has to go; the media will not allow the electorate to forget that one lie whilst the continual lies of others will be ignored.
    As for Carswell the jury is still out but not hopeful.

    • There’s no point, IMHO, to focus the debate on Paul and his failings. That’s playing according to the rules of the establishment. Any ‘leader’ we elect will be scrutinised to within an inch of their lives, and while the MSM are doing this, they give free passes to the politicians of the mainstream parties.
      We have to get away from this blame game. We really truly need to accept that we will never win if we try to become ‘mainstream’.
      We have the people “On Top” which we have, they are there, some are doing excellently well as MEPs – but does anybody think that any of them will be able to sustain the scrutiny by the MSM Paul was exposed to, does anybody think that we have one, just one, ‘leader’ who is totally, absolutely spotless, perfect, snowy-white? Who is he or she? Names, please!

      • Probably there isn’t an alternative within but Paul has already blotted his copybook and it will not be forgotten. However the real issue as you say is the lack of any radical policy.

      • No, Carswell has to go ASAP if UKIP is going to get its mojo back.

        There’s a recent Breitbart podcast with James Dellingpole interviewing Carswell in which Carswell says he joined UKIP to sabotage us because he didn’t want the “wrong kind of euroskeptic” involved in the referendum. Listen to it and then tell me that the jury is still out.

      • Maybe there was a good reason for Paul not standing the first time round. Perhaps he knew his own limitations. It’s hard to believe that, upon becoming leader, he and his advisors did not scrap every bit of information on Facebook and everywhere else and start from scratch, writing new material gone through with the finest of toothcombs. Even if some scummy reporter had brought up the old material to flap around, it could have been pointed out that all had been revised and corrected. We know that the media reptiles such as Crick are always out to get UKIP, so nothing should be left to chance and Paul should have accepted the resignation of the assistant who neglected to update a Facebook page for 6 years!
        It’s hard, very hard, not to miss Nigel. Watching him on that Channel 4 doc last night “Has Political Correctness Gone Mad” with Trevor “Hypocrite” Phillips pretending to care about free speech, it was a treat to see Nigel’s deftness, his assuredness, his ability to handle Leftard suck-ups such as Phillips with aplomb.

        I think we should wait until the Labour mob have another leadership election after Jezza’s debacle in Copeland, and slip our own in at the same time. Peter Whittle as favourite.

        • I saw Peter Whittle on tv last night.
          I don’t think the word ‘immigration’ crossed his lips once.
          Carswell ADORES immigration ( another terrible error of judgment about people on Nigel’s behalf ).
          Peter Whittle is fluent, certainly, but has he been hijacked by metropolitan élitism by virtue of living so long in the Capital ?

      • GEOFFREY CHARLES ELLIOTT. // February 24, 2017 at 11:34 am // Reply

        Thanks Viv for taking the time to write this and as ever your wisdom is much appreciated.I am bitterly disappointed that we weren’t able to break the
        stranglehold that the nasty lying Labour Party has on it’s tribal voters in Stoke,much like Labours tribal voters here in Pontypridd,who all voted for that vile arch remainiac Owen Serial LiarSmith.
        I am not going to come on here and dissect where we went wrong,that should be blatantly obvious to us all this morning.What we all thought was going to be a two horse race,in fact turned about to be a three horse race,as we did not convince the Tory voters of Stoke,who voted with us for Brexit,to
        vote for us.Last Saturday in Stoke,I managed to speak to a guy,who said that he was a lifelong Labour voter,but had voted for Brexit,I then asked him,if we could count on his support,he replied saying that he would not in fact be voting for anyone as “we were all the same,and nothing would change,”
        And there lies our problem,we are being thought of as mainstream.
        I knew it was going to be tough,perhaps I should have taken more notice of the statistics,as my wife has suggested.I knew we were going to be attacked from all sides,that can now be expected.In the cold light of today,what are we
        going to do about it,are we going to lay down and die,as our beloved country is overrun with aliens,and become a Moslem Embracing State,and see everything that our brave ancestors fought and died for be given away without a fight.No,I know and believe in my heart that our policies are both honest and truthful,and for the sake of our children,grandchildren,and our
        people we must regroup and move forward,and learn from our mistakes,we must continue,and be even more vigorous in attacking the failings of all the
        useless Politicians,from either side of The House.
        Thank you,Geoff.Elliott,UKIP,RCT Branch,Pontypridd.

        • Hear, hear, Geoff, we need to retain our fighting spirit despite bitter disappointments and let-downs. Reactions to Brexit have highlighted and exposed the enemies of the British people and their democratic will as never before in our history. We might have suspected who the traitors were, pre-Referendum, but now we know for a fact who they are and what their opinion is of the electorate. We haven’t had true democracy in this country for a very long time, if ever, because the professional political leeches on the body politic think they know better than the ordinary voters on every topic from capital punishment down to what light bulbs we should use.
          Down with the corrupt Establishment. Abolish the House of Lords. Reform the House of Commons with true elections in which every vote counts!

          • If ONLY ( the saddest words in the English language [ after ‘ I’m afraid it’s malignant’ , anyway ] UKIP had been on the scene in 2011 when we had the Referendum on A/V.

            Not as good as PR of course but if we had campaigned hard for it it would have gone through, as Brexit did last year. And now we would have at least 100 Members of Parliament.

            That said, the grossly unfair, Rotten Borough system, was not nearly so much in play in Stoke as there we actually started off favourites; it was known to have become a three way marginal; and therefore every vote did count for once.
            And Lab’s vote total was truly abysmal at 7,000 odd.
            If we had had a much stronger message, unapologetically delivered, with UKIP Liveried vans and cars loudhailing the message in the streets at homecoming time for the last couple of weeks ( schoolkids love the excitement / novelty of loudhailing cars, and their Mums [ ooh ! check the sexism ! !! ] smile with them…..) we should surely have managed 8 thousand minimum ?

            Maybe a LOT LOT more.

        • Geoffrey,

          I have just one question, what policies?

      • “….they give free passes to the politicians of the mainstream parties.”

        Do you seriously and honestly believe that? This took seconds to find, for example…

        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11125919/Conservative-minister-resigns-over-sex-scandal.html

        Paul N. doesn’t have to be whiter than white but he mustn’t lie or spin….because UKIP sell themselves on the point that UKIP isn’t like any other party….so when Paul N. blames a staffer after he was caught out….it makes him sound like any other politician.

      • I agree Viv that it would send a message of disarray to focus on Paul’s failings in this by-election.
        But (always a but!) he has been, frankly, pig headed in not bringing John Rees-Evans into the top team with his many young followers, most if not all of whom have left UkIP in disgust. And, if we are really serious about flagging up the whole of the problems with Islam Anne Marie Waters has a wealth of knowledge, is not afraid, and is a member of UKIP also sidelined because of her links, presumably, to that shockingly silently non-radical PEGIDA Britain movement, most rally attendees being ex-UKIPpers who don’t want their children to have to grow up under Sharia.
        So, the question is, do we want to grasp the nettle or not?

        • Ironic, isn’t it, Dee?

          Nigel calls for the Party to be radical, and yet Anne Marie Waters was sidelined as you say for her links to PEGIDA and as we all know, it happened under Nigel’s watch …..

          For one, I also support PEGIDA and in fact the same goes to Paul Weston and Liberty GB too.

          • Worse comes to worst, perhaps it’s better to form a new party — untainted by Nigel (despite his good work), Banks and all the ex-Tories who cannot come to terms with the new reality (with the exception of Suzanne and Carswell, etc. meaning leaving behind the toxicity of the internal discord behind inspired no less by the inter-personal relationship between Nigel and the names mentioned, amongst others) and let John Rees Evans be the leader and implement Direct Democracy and not least, get the young people — with their *idealism, youthful enthusiasm and energy* on board! Yes, we need more young people to the cause provided the new movement is led by someone like John Rees Evans (I say this not as his supporter) but UKIP under the ex-Tory libertarians (and again it’s not referring to Suzanna and Carswell) is currently too rotten, unprofessional, myopic, selfish to fulfil the noble purpose and aims for fighting for the British people …..

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