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Second referendum

Someone called TIXERB has started a petition called ‘Pause BREXIT, EU reform for all members, second UK referendum’ which currently has just over 350 signatures.

I’d like to comment on some of the suggestions made in the petition.

 

Whilst 52% of those voting wanted to leave the EU, the 71% turnout does NOT give them a mandate to trample on the hopes of those who voted to remain.

Would the petition organisers prefer to trample on the hopes of the 52% who voted to leave? With a binary question, half of those who voted – the minority – will have their hopes dashed. It’s unfortunate but that’s the result of an ‘either/or’ question.

 

The people of the UK and EU should demand a pause to reflect and understand what Brexit actually means to EVERYONE and how it will affect not just Europe, but the rest of the world in terms of stability, and prosperity for future generations.

The problem with Brexit is that nobody actually knows what it will mean. The Remainers promoted ‘Project Fear’ in the run up to the referendum but many of the dire consequences of voting to leave simply haven’t happened.

Not only are the results of Brexit unknown to us, they are unknown to Europe and the rest of the world. If we pause Brexit, how are we going to find out what the results will be? We British are a strong and courageous people; whatever happens after Brexit we will survive – if we can survive two World Wars, we can certainly survive Brexit and there is a chance, and a very good chance, that we will come out of this process stronger, richer and more independent.

 

The last few weeks have highlighted the dishonest information the LEAVE campaign peddled during the referendum. There has been an increase in racial assault and intolerance, Sterling is worth substantially less, food prices and inflation are rising, and the UK, instead of being a leader within the EU is being marginalised. Britain also risks internal fragmentation.

I wonder what ‘dishonest information’ was peddled by the Leave campaign during the referendum campaign. Has there really been an increase in racial assault? And if there has, how can this be tied to Brexit? There is no doubt that Sterling has slipped in the money markets but many of the financial pundits tell us Sterling was overvalued anyway. Add to that the fact that with cheaper Sterling, our exports are growing – did the instigator of this petition realise that?

I love the bit about the UK being a leader within the EU! We were never a leader in the EU; every suggestion we put forward was voted down by the hierarchy, we were treated as a money pit from day one and were told how much money to hand over and what we could do and not do. If we had been a leader within the EU we would have had much more chance of doing something about the extravagances it perpetrated. We couldn’t.

And as for ‘internal fragmentation’, the only people who are threatening to fragment our country are those who insist on trying to overturn the result of the referendum and thwart the democratic will of the people.

 

The most alarming revelation is that Brexit leaders and UK government had no idea what withdrawing from the EU would mean in practice. There were no plans in place for that eventuality and insufficient experienced negotiators to even begin the process. The government is moving towards Brexit without proper democratic scrutiny of any proposed terms. If there is ‘Hard Brexit’ it is clear that the marginalised and disaffected voters who were persuaded to vote to leave, will be those who will suffer most.

This is true – as stated above, nobody actually knows what will happen, so there’s no point in considering it. Perhaps the instigator of this petition suggests the government should have hired a negotiator experienced in withdrawing from the EU. Err, is there such a person?

The government is moving towards Brexit with as clear an idea as possible about the future and I’m sure that the scrutiny of the terms is being undertaken now. Surely that is the reason for the delay in negotiations – to ensure proper scrutiny.

As far as ‘democratic’ scrutiny is concerned, would the instigator of this petition like to have every single item put to a referendum? We’d be here for the next 100 years (perhaps that’s what they want!).

They claim that the ‘marginalised and disaffected voters who were persuaded to vote leave’ will be those who will suffer most in a hard Brexit. Where do they get that idea from? It is so easy to make allegations like this without even the hint of any evidence that would back up those claims. If such claims are ‘clear’, let’s see the evidence.

 

The triggering of Article 50 should be put on hold. This would enable the EU to make a commitment to substantial reforms which bring benefits to all without requiring any country to surrender its own destiny or suffering a diminution of identity and culture. The terms of this new agreement can then be put to the British people in a further Referendum, so that unlike the previous vote, people can decide what is in our best interests ON THE FACTS, as opposed to inaccurate claims made by political leaders.

The triggering of Article 50 should NOT be put on hold. And as for the EU ‘making a commitment to substantial reforms’ I would suggest that the possibility of this is somewhere between slim and nil. The bloc has had decades to reform and the only reforms it has made is to tighten it’s stranglehold on its member states.

And finally, on the assumption that the EU will actually improve, ‘the terms of this new agreement can then be put to the British people in a further referendum’. Once again, if Article 50 is put on hold, the bloc has no incentive to reform because it knows that once it does, the billions of pounds that we pour into its coffers will cease, either by adjusting our contributions or by our withdrawal.

 

Please sign our EU wide petition to make this happen; it is open to all EU citizens.

What have other EU citizens got to do with whether or not we Brits stay or leave? Surely it’s up to us.

Sign if you want to – the petition is on the government’s website. I won’t.

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Debbie
About Debbie (686 Articles)
Debbie has been a journalist for longer than she cares to admit! She has been freelance for the last 15 years and is an associate editor on UKIP Daily, specialising in covering the morning press each day.

19 Comments on Second referendum

  1. No one can predict the economic future post Brexit but it may be somewhat easier to predict the outcome should we decide to see the “error” of our ways and return to the EU fold. Imagine how the EU would then treat us .Re economics, w would be stuck with financing EU armed forces and their burgeoning diplomatic missions around the globe, plus the ever increasing opulence of EU politicians and officials. To stay in the EU would be folly if not madness.

  2. Just been looking through some of the comments posted on that petition:
    https://www.change.org/p/uk-parliament-and-eu-council-of-ministers-pause-brexit-eu-reform-for-all-member-states-second-uk-referendum-2b6e7200-48fd-4c55-a5fc-bbb670038c23/c?source_location=petition_show

    My favourite one, which just highlights how ill-informed some people are, is the one from the lady in Douglas, Isle Of Man:

    “Apparently the Isle of Man could have voted – but we were not formed. I wonder if this would have made a difference on the outcome of the percentages. One wonders.”

    So a resident of the Isle Of Man doesn’t even know that the Isle Of Man isn’t actually part of the UK? (And therefore not part of the EU). And with a population of 85000 (2011 census), even if they all voted to Remain, it wouldn’t have made a difference to the outcome anyway!

  3. Wonder what TIXERB stands for? My random suggestion:
    T for Trite
    I for Idiotic
    X for Xylocarp (thick-shelled nut)
    E for Effluent (nasty sewer kind)
    R for Rabid
    B for Blob
    See Debbie’s News Review today for another Rabid Remainer Rat frothing about setting up a new anti-BREXIT party demanding (YAWN) a 2nd referendum. He’s going to call it the ‘Democrats’ party (you gotta laugh in a snarky way). This guy was actually working in David Davis’s department (HOW?) and is saying Davis is drunk, bullying and inappropriate. Can any of us stand these antics for the next two bloody years?

    • Isn’t it amazing how the most undemocratic countries around the world all have ‘democratic’, ‘peoples’ or other such monikers in their titles? As if just putting the words in the country’s title will make them more democratic.

      • Yup, the most egregious example must surely be the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, aka NORTH Korea!

        Anything that has ‘Democratic/Democrat’ in its title is generally nothing of the sort. ‘Liberal Democrats’ is a case in point. Why don’t they change it to ‘The Vince Cable Party’?

      • GEOFFREY CHARLES ELLIOTT. // August 16, 2017 at 8:03 pm // Reply

        Debbie,yes you are quite correct,how can those countries be democratic,
        when the voters only have one single choice of leader.For instance was the election of Theresa May,who was the only candidate,make a mockery of
        Democracy? or is our election with an absurd number of eleven candidates
        make us more democratic,when we could in fact elect a leader who has say just one thousand votes or less,this is a recipe for disaster,as instead of
        representing the many,It favours the few.In my opinion I do so wish that these nohopers see how futile it is in them continuing,as their delusions of grandeur
        and their sheer arrogance is taking (however little in number) votes away from our best candidates.

        • I think that by the simple use of home computers and smart phones the membership of UKIP could vote in a 1/4 final and eliminate the lowest 7 candidates. Then vote in a semi final and eliminate 2 more, and then choose a winner with a huge mandate. It is not rocket science and it democratically removes the least successful at each stage.

    • TIXERB is actually Brexit in reverse, see what they did there, oh very clever! 😀

      145 signatures after 10 months, says it all really.

      I also love it when they throw out ‘it was an advisory referendum’ – I really wish I’d kept that bloody leaflet that the government sent to every household, where it clearly said ‘the government will carry out the result’.

      • Sorry, looked at the wrong number, 355 signatures after 10 months 😮

      • Yes, StuartJ, I didn’t see that before; it’s rather childish, isn’t it? And he/they/it (?) don’t even want a 2nd referendum – just to reverse what 17.4m people voted for, and ignore it. Why doesn’t whoever’s behind TIXERB take an extended holiday in N Korea and study democracy there? I can think of quite a few Remainers who deserve to go too.

  4. Heard on RT yesterday 68% wish to continue with the leaving procedure 22% still want to remain
    Don`t know whether anybody ascertained percentage wanting a “pause” nor even an indeterminate “running in period”
    But I did see Nigel having a few choice words about what 52% voted for and any running in period at all.
    Had a word with my Chief informant on the EU (the man on the fishy counter at my local supermarket)
    He said he was getting doubtful that we would have Brexit.
    I told him to cheer up.
    It`s all smoke and mirrors
    Junckers and his mob can`t wait for us to leave, remember when Cameron voted against him for the bobby`s job, it was because he was hell bent on a United States of Europe.
    Nothing has changed, he still is.
    The proverbial fly in the ointment is Germany, when we leave the way will be clear for Junckers to have his way (I don`t mean carry on raping other countries like Greece and Cyprus but that is possible) i.e. To go full tilt for the final hook up only trouble is Germany knows that means financial ties also and there`s the rub – financial suicide and permanent low performance and stagnation.
    The other rub is that with our departure; so we take away our permanent seat on the Security Council, at the moment there are two seats within the EU, us and France;
    The EU have been trying to get us to cede our seat to them for years (they have ambitions to both look like a proper nation and also be in a position to enforce their policy dreams)
    So we come to the second German beef, with us gone that leaves France in the driving seat and in effect Germany without a route one outlet to the top (world stage influence). I can`t see France ever ceding their seat.
    If Germany and its pals in the EU keep on the delaying tactics, I can see there will come a point of “No possible settlement” and we with Junckers collusion will opt for the WTO solution and just hop it.
    I don`t believe Corbyn will raise a finger against that option, as he knows its within his clique`s interest (When I say clique I exclude some of the Labour party) to gain power at the next election and lead on to his dream of a Soviet Style Republic (Should solve a lot of problems, no more PC (inc Personal Pronouns), no more Sharia Law, No more Trident, 20,00- more nurses,10,000 more doctors, 1million more on the public payroll, £1-5 trillion more on the debt – oh! we`re going to have fun, well some of us won`t

  5. Poor sad Remainer. It’s enough to make you weep….with laughter.

  6. Sadly, this is now the modern political phenomena of our age – in that if you’re on the losing side, you actually have the right to be the winner and overturn the result.

    It’s happened / happening with Brexit and it happened / is still happening with the Labour Party after the GE.

    • And it all started in our schools… remember how there are no ‘winners’ at school sports days any more, everyone is a winner, no matter where you finish. The kids subjected to this are now growing up into adults, no wonder they all seem to have this sense of entitlement, and no desire to improve themselves, any concept of competition has been indoctrinated out of them!

      Odd one I have also just thought of: notice how the winners of shows like the X-Factor (shudder) never really amount to much, yet those that finish second or third usually enjoy some modest success?

  7. Those who did not bother to vote evidently did not mind which way the outcome went. It is idiotic for the remainers to think that the result was illegitimate because of the non-voters.

  8. kenneth james ogilvie // August 16, 2017 at 10:59 am // Reply

    350 signatures? Really going strong then

  9. “Triggering” should be put on hold? It CAN’T, as it’s ALREADY been triggered! With that poor a grasp of reality, he’ll get nowhere… 🤣

  10. This petition, like every single Remainiac “argument” ever, is born out of a fundamental msunderstanding of what the EU is, how it works and what its aims are.

    This misunderstanding, in some cases deliberate, in others simply a result of ignorance, is then compounded and “supported” by a succession of unsubstantiated statements and outright lies. Throw in deliberate misrepresentations of the unanswerable case for Leave and some patronising abuse of Brexit voters and you have the Remainiac in a nutshell.

    I shudder to think of the millions of man hours expended over the past 18 months by honest Leavers taking the time to engage with these Remainiac “arguments”, forensically proving each point wrong in turn, only for the Remainiac to return to the beginning and start over.

    What it boils down to is that our Remainiac friends have, quite wrongly and in the face of all available evidence, come to the conclusion that being pro-EU makes you a nice person. It’s as simple as that. It’s virtue signaling.

    So having arrived at their position through a fact-free emotional judgment, it is impossible to persuade them using facts or rational arguments.

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