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Respecting Muslims, challenging Islam

 

Recently UKIP Daily has hosted a number of articles about issues such as halal slaughter, Sharia courts and jihadi terrorism. It is good to see the party is beginning to get to grips with the rise of Islam in our society.

But it seems we are still tip-toeing around the topic and trying to avoid giving offence. One of the contributors even wrote that we should be careful about going too far when discussing Islam in case our political enemies “have us promptly branded as BNP-Lite, or similar” – as if it matters what our opponents say about us.

We cannot do policy by worrying about tomorrow’s headlines.

Islam now saturates our political landscape and dominates the public imagination in the way that, say, Communism/Marxism did 50 years ago, and the UK is being increasingly Islamised. UKIP must therefore develop a coherent approach to the issue if it wants to be a serious political party.

I offer two key principles to guide us:

First we must fully respect Muslims as our friends, neighbours and fellow British citizens who have the same rights and freedoms as the rest of us. Stupidly stereotyping them, insulting them or slagging them off as people is unacceptable.

But, second, we must insist that we are free to challenge all aspects of Islam, unconstrained by political correctness and with nothing off-limits. Nonsense accusations of racism and Islamophobia must not be allowed to shut down necessary debate.

I’ve tried these principles and they work:

In 2005 a fundamentalist Islamic group called Tablighi Jamaat (TJ) announced that they planned to construct one of the largest mosques in the world, with a capacity of between 45,000 and 70,000, at West Ham in east London just a mile from my home and half a mile from the London Olympic stadium. TJ intended to build this as a massive showcase mosque for the 2012 London Olympics and as a global centre to propagate their hostile form of Islam across Europe and North America.

I decided to oppose it without personal animosity towards the Muslims behind the project. Indeed I often subsequently defended their right to propose their mega-mosque just as I defended my absolute right to oppose it. That’s how democracy works in the UK even if not in Saudi Arabia.

Before I started the campaign I tried to meet with the TJ elders in order to explain my opposition. Although they refused, I regularly extended the right hand of neighbourliness to them to show I had nothing against them personally or as Muslims. However they continued to refuse to meet.

I was also ruthless in publicly exposing the political ideology of the group and their underlying hostility to British society, with no holds barred. In my view it would have been utter madness to allow them this huge platform to propagate their anti-social beliefs across the UK and wider.

I launched the campaign via BBC TV in July 2006 and immediately ran into a storm of vitriol and bile, mainly from the Left, with the inevitable accusations of race-hatred, bigotry and Islamophobia. Jonathan Bartley, now joint-leader of the Green Party and that party’s leading UKIP opponent , was one of the first out of the blocks with uninformed and typically knee-jerk comments.

Muslim mega-mosque supporters too attacked me. One even issued a death threat by publishing my obituary on social media.

But as I respect Muslims and am not Islamophobic, I was able to campaign together with moderate British Muslims who also opposed this monstrosity. Our campaign co-operation was telling and in due course the message got through. Newham Council, which previously had been 100% in favour of the mega-mosque, took note, changed its mind and in December 2012 it rejected the TJ planning application. The government followed when in November 2015 Secretary of State Greg Clark MP rejected TJ’s appeal.

A personal warmth towards Muslims, together with an iron determination to publish the unpalatable facts about Tablighi Jamaat and their mega-mosque no matter the cost, were both vital to the success of our campaign.

Islam is a theocratic religion, that is, both a political ideology and a religious belief system. Also, like Communism/Marxism, it wants to take over the world. In our democracy we primarily challenge such take-overs by disputing their ideas and contesting their policies. We must maintain therefore that we are completely free to dispute the Quran, to expose hypocrisy in the Hadith and to rubbish Sharia, for example.

Further, at the heart of Islam lies Islam’s prophet Muhammad who every stream of Islam claims is the ‘Role Model for All Humanity’.

It is our democratic duty to put Muhammad under the microscope and see what he has to offer UK society.

For instance, he had nine wives, the youngest of whom was aged six when they wed and with whom he consummated the marriage when she was just nine. If our increasingly Islamised society begins to accept Muhammad as a role model for the UK, will this necessarily change our collective view (and, ultimately, our legislation) about polygamy, paedophilia and child brides, to a more Islamic approach?

UKIP is a bold radical party that rejects the soggy truth-denying political correctness of the political class. We must be willing, if necessary alone, to raise tough issues, ask hard questions and champion unpopular causes.

And from now on Islam, but not Muslims, must be on UKIP’s agenda and in our political sights.

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About Alan Craig (5 Articles)
Alan is UKIP Parliamentary Candidate for Witney, UKIP London Regional vice-chairman and UKIP Havering Branch secretary

46 Comments on Respecting Muslims, challenging Islam

  1. To understand just what exactly is being communicated by Muslims, I recommend that you go online to MEMRI, that is The Middle East Media Research Institute which is an independent organisation based in Washington DC. Check out the board of directors and advisiors. Every day, this organisation receives requests from the US military, legislature and government.
    Of particular interest for those living in the UK, you can go directly to: http://www.memri.org/reports/editors-picks-memri-tv-archives-british-islamists-supporting-jihad.
    What I find really shameful and unexplained is the fact that HM government have the details and for some reason, is hesitant in throwing the rubbish out of the UK. When one hears of the black or green flag over 10 Downing Street, and jeers and insults towards the coffins of fallen British soldiers without recourse, I can well understand why these swine have no respect for our culture and laws.

  2. Great article Alan, and you are correct we must be allowed to criticise and discuss Islam’s effect on our culture and society.

    No other party other than UKIP seems remotely interested, and that’s all to do with keeping favour with the growing population of Muslim voters.

    I’m predicting that it won’t be long before a proper Muslim political option appears,which would enable them to champion Sharia Law and other such horrors.

    Will the moderate Muslim’s please stand up….not in my lifetime.

  3. Moderate obviously means something different to you and me. I’ve enjoyed our little chat, but I need to go to find a twitter dictionary. Seems app. To me I mean not you..
    appropriate somehow. t g spokes.

  4. OBEY OUR LAWS OR GO TH JAIL

  5. Sirs, All very interesting .
    Obey our laws or go to jail.

    T g spokes

    • But, T g spokes, they don’t obey our laws, and nothing happens. That’s why this must be argued for at every opportunity – many people don’t realize that Sharia Law even operates, and don’t realize what it is – that’s why we have to keep on trying.

  6. Dear Alan,

    Thank you very much for sharing about your campaign! A very well argued approach, if I may say so.

    Warmly,
    Jason

  7. > the youngest of whom was aged six when they wed and with
    > whom he consummated the marriage when she was just nine

    For which the citations are:
    Ibn Ishaq – 116, 223, 279-280, 311, 457, 464-465, 468, 493-499, 522, 535-536, 544, 649-650, 667, 678-688 (per Guillaume)
    Ibn Isham – 918
    Al-Tabari – Vol. 9 128-131; Vol. 39 171-174
    Ibn Saad – 8:43-56,152 (per Bewley)
    The possibility that Aisha was 8 at the time of claimed consummation cannot be ruled out (though 9 is much more likely). M was 42-43 yrs her senior.

    Here is a list of some other wives (numbering as in my other comment) with age differences. Age at marriage is given when noteworthy.

    04 Hafsa bint Umar (M older by 34 yrs)

    05 Zaynab bint Khuzayma (M older by 25-26 yrs)

    06 Hind (Umm Salama) bint Abi Umayya (M older by 26-27 yrs)

    07 Zaynab bint Jahsh (M older by 18-19 yrs)

    09 Juwayriyah bint Al-Harith (M older by 36-37 yrs)

    10 Ramla (Umm Habiba) bint Abi Sufyan (M older by 22-23 yrs)

    11 Safiyah bint Huyayy Ibn Akhtab – 16 yrs 6 mths old (M older by 40 yrs 9 mths)

    12 Maymunah bint Al-Harith (M older by 22-23 yrs)

    14 Mulayka bint Kaab – 12-14 yrs old (Probably unconsummated; M older by 44-46 yrs)

    15 Asma bint Al-Numan (Unconsummated; M older by 39-40 yrs)

    16 Amra bint Yazid – 14-16 yrs old (Unconsummated; M older by 44-46 yrs)

    Source: https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Ages_of_Muhammads_Wives_at_Marriage

  8. Alan, I tweeted your article out, and I was very interested to see that it had a great many retweets, as well as, apart from a few rude comments, a lot of likes. The headline, I think, has resonated with many people. The really interesting thing was that apart from Anne Marie Waters, none were people I’d come across before on Twitter. I tend to follow those with similar views to myself, as you do! What that seems to say is there are a lot of people out there who want to do just what your headline says, as you suggest doing it. My conclusion is that this might well be the way for UKIP to approach the subject, because the most important thing is to challenge, and people are obviously interested in that. I thought you might be interested – comments here including from me, are not necessarily how people out there think – but at least they are thinking.

  9. > he had nine wives

    Alan, nine lives would have met Bonaparte’s test for a good general (“lucky”), but scholarly sources credit him with 11-13, not merely nine, wives.

    Here’s my chronological list of consummated marriages, citing scriptural sources – [1]=Ibn Ishaq, [2]=Ibn Isham, [3]= Al-Tabari, [4]= Ibn Sa’d, [5]= Ibn al-Qayyim, [6]=Majlisi, [7]=Bukhari:

    01 Khadijah bint Khuwaylid – Jul 595 [1234]

    02 Sawda bint Zam’a – May 620 [12347]

    03 Aisha bint Abi Bakr – May 620 + Apr/May 623 [1234]

    04 Hafsa bint Umar – Jan/Feb 625 [1234]

    05 Zaynab bint Khuzayma – Feb/Mar 625 [234]

    06 Hind (Umm Salama) bint Abi Umayya – Apr 626 [1234]

    07 Zaynab bint Jahsh – Mar 627 [1234]

    08(?) Rayhana bint Zayd ibn Amr – May 627 (Unclear if later married) [134]

    09 Juwayriyah bint Al-Harith – Jan 628 [1234]

    10 Ramla (Umm Habiba) bint Abi Sufyan – Jul 628 [1234]

    11 Safiyah bint Huyayy Ibn Akhtab – Jul 628 [1234]

    12 Maymunah bint Al-Harith – Feb 629 [1234]

    13(?) Fatima al-Aliya bint Zabyan al-Dahhak – Feb/Mar 630 (Probably consummated – quick divorce) [34]

    i.e., 11-13 wives, not 9.

    Additionally, there were 3 unconsummated marriages:

    14 Mulayka bint Kaab – Jan 630 (Probably unconsummated – divorced) [34]

    15 Asma bint Al-Numan – Jun/Jul 630 (Unconsummated – quick divorce) [234]

    16 Amra bint Yazid – c631 (Unconsummated – quick divorce) [1234]

    And 3 more concubines:

    17 Mariyah bint Shamoon al-Quptiya/Qubtiya – Jun 629 (Official concubine) [134]

    18 Al-Jariya – Post-627 (Official concubine) [5]

    19 Tukana al-Quraziya – c632 (Unofficial concubine) [56]

    Plus another 18-20 scripturally mentioned broken engagements or refused proposals.

    There may have been other wives/concubines not clearly mentioned in Islamic scripture.

    Sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad%27s_wives plus my own research.

    (280 words)

  10. Everybody should read this article too, the governments failure to acknowledge reality for whatever reason, will get us killed. The time for tolerance has passed.

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/04/02/wake-westminister-bridge-attack-mice-gough-island-can-teach-us-islam/

    • Flyer, this article needs to be read by Sharia May and everyone in her Cabinet. Perhaps they’ll begin to realise that they’re either being incredibly naive and incredibly negligent; or perhaps they’ll realise that they’d better start telling the truth about islam instead of trying to sell fairy stories to the public to keep the peace -civil peace that is, not the fictional ‘peace’ of islam that they pretend to believe in.

      This is what’s so maddening about this situation: the continued pretence that nothing is wrong; that they can’t see what is happening now and will happen in the future unless the West starts to control islam. I cannot believe that they are so stupid as not to know; so what it comes down to is that they are treating the British as children or fools.

  11. Alan, I admire you for helping to stop that mega-mosque being built. In my view, having read that article in Flyer’s Breitbart link, there should be no more mosques at all allowed to be built in the UK; and the ones linked to sedition and hate-preaching need closing and demolition. Islam needed challenging a long time ago, but it’s been permitted to take extreme liberties and get away with it by the weak and feeble authorities for decades. I think things are coming to a crisis point and if no action is taken now, we will embark on the worst chapter of our island history.

    It’s your phrase ‘respecting muslims’ that sticks in my craw. As a woman, I know they have no respect for my gender, and I have none for them. Their 7th century AD Arabian misogyny, embedded in their ‘religion’ and culture apparently allows them to behave like sex fiends, as seen in Sweden, Germany, Rotheram, Oxford, Rochdale and far too many other places around the UK.

    Shouldn’t it be the other way round, with muslims respecting US, the rightful inheritors of Britain? They came to this country – OUR country – perfectly voluntarily, not in slave ships, yet you could swear sometimes that they think they did us a favour by invading our land.
    Little or no attempt was made to fit in with OUR way of life in a long-established society with a proud history of outstanding achievements in politics, culture, arts, architecture, medicine, sciences and inventions; all accomplished while living through some very difficult and dangerous times.
    At first, no one bothered about the immigrants’ religion, but one demand to be special and excused obeying this or that regulation or law followed another and was conceded by the ridiculously PC governments who cared nothing for British sensitivities, only those of a squeaky-wheel, arrogant, self-entitled minority. How long they’ll be a minority at the present rate of reproduction is a frightening question.

    I believe the majority of Brits are sick of it and want pressure brought to bear on the government to get tough and apply ONE law – British law – to everyone regardless of religious sensibilities. If muslims don’t like it, too bad; there’s a wide choice of islamic countries where they practise sharia law, approve of halal killing, allow four wives, carry out barbaric cruelties on women, and have as many mosques as they like without taking up valuable space or desecrating Christian churches.

    • Hi Panmelia, you inadvertently illustrate my argument against stereotyping Muslims by accusing them all of misogyny. But 50% of them are women, and many of those – as I know having met them, including for research specifically into Sharia courts – suffer under Sharia law in the UK especially regarding marriage, divorce and child custody. Many of these Muslim women want Sharia restricted or banned in the UK, so they are good allies in the cause.

      • Yes, I know, Alan, that 50% of muslims are women and suffer under it. But which gender runs things, says what goes, insists on following a misogynistic koran and hadith to the letter because it suits them to regard themselves as superior beings?

        And there may even be some muslim men who would like to change things, but would they dare to speak out?
        So stereotyping the men is all we can do until they show signs of reforming their ideology from within. As it has remained the same for 1400 years, I don’t think we should hang about waiting.

    • Pam,
      You say “the majority of Brits are sick of it”
      I agree with all your comments, but on that I think you are far wrong.
      I believe there is only a very small “minority” even aware of the Muslim problem or even heard of Sharia Law.
      UKIP achieved victory in the “education of the public problem” in the matter of bulk (300+k nett) immigration and the effect on service strain and to some extent on our way of life eg.houses went to immigrants rather than natives etc; but I`ll take a bet there are very few who went the extra mile and made the connection that just by population growth they would be in the ascendancy by such and such date.
      We are only at the start of that education process and I don`t think the penny has dropped even where it matters (Head Office) they are either too thick or criminally incompetent.(Defence of the realm)

      • Roger, I think that the majority of Brits ARE sick of it, but have been very effectively silenced by fear of laws passed punishing ‘hate speech’, which is essentially criminalising criticism of muslims. Blair & Co couldn’t get a law passed against ‘islamophobia’ after 7/7/05 although they had been leading up to it; and Miliband revived the idea in 2015, touting round mosques for votes, saying that as PM he would bring in a law specifically against ‘islamophobia’.

        People still preface criticisms of muslims or islam with the tired old irrelevant line “I’m not a racist, but …”, still unaware that islam is NOT a race. They also carefully choose to whom they express their criticism, in the same way that people were afraid to say frankly what their views on immigration were, not very long ago.

        It was UKIP that informed people and gave them their voice on mass uncontrolled immigration and I hope it will be UKIP that gives them a voice about islam and its incompatibility with the British way of life and its laws. Who can object to an argument that insists on everyone obeying British laws? We need to campaign for the abolition of sharia, halal and FGM. There should be no system of ‘law’ or ‘justice’ in this country EXCEPT British Parliamentary law.

  12. GEOFFREY CHARLES ELLIOTT. // April 2, 2017 at 8:44 pm // Reply

    https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/10037/no-go-zones-europe
    https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/10124/london-mosques-churches
    https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9741/islamization-britain
    Alan Craig,i suggest you get real,and click the the links,and then even someone as blinkered as you can see the actual truth for themselves,what your friends have done to Sweden and want to do to.Britain.Muslims by deep instructions,do not respect or acknowledge freedom at all.They neither want it or understand it.Without exception
    they are slave to their god.In their so called holy book they reapeatedly,explicitly.
    solemnly,shamelessly again and again,they are asked to destroy every non-Muslim,
    and to kill them and take their belongings,and seize them and their women,all in the name of their god.Isis is the most genuine version of Islam that exists today in the modern world as can be seen by their quotes.This is not something marginal,it is the core value of Islam,to capture and convert,or behead or crucify anyone who does not comply.Do not be fooled by their moderates.Muslims are the most serious threat to our own indigenous people from within.They have no no sense of reason or respect for Humsn life,they only believe in Jihad.Every part of the World is on fire due to Muslim instigation.The time of pandering and appeasement to the death-cult
    Islamists is over,as is all that their most peverted of religions demands,sich as FGM,honour killings,Sharia Law and that most despicable Halal.I refuse to be silent about our massive overpopulation,and especially the huge problems we now face from the Islamification of Britain.Islam is just not compatible with Western Society.

    • Geoffrey, surely UKIP still has to speak out. It is all we can do, and while it might be like rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic, it will wake some people up, get the topic out into the open, and if we have to actually fight, people will be rather more prepared if we have flagged up what they will be fighting against. So my thing is, don’t shoot the messenger, Alan, because WE are all aware , but many are not.

    • Hi Geoffrey Charles Elliott. I’ve got real thanks, and I act on that reality. Hence my successful opposition to the mega-mosque.

      But I won’t generalise or stereotype Muslims. They are human beings just like us and as varied as Christians, atheists, humanists, Hindus, Marxists or any other group. Some are bad and some are good.

      Islam is the real issue.

      • Actually, Alan, I’m sure that muslims are human beings, but I don’t think they are human beings JUST LIKE US. That’s the problem, isn’t it? Muslims have never had the wit or the courage to make any progress toward civilisation.
        How many British parents have murdered their teenage daughter because she wouldn’t wear a headscarf, wore clothes she liked, answered back, saw a boyfriend they didn’t approve of, resisted when they took her to a foreign country and tried to marry her off to a complete stranger much older than her?
        How many British parents have been helped by uncles and brothers to murder a defenceless daughter in order to salvage their “honour” among their co-religionists?
        How many British parents have subjected their daughters to unspeakable pain and trauma by allowing some butcher to mutilate their genitals?

        Although they completely ignore the laws of our land in carrying out these wicked things, that doesn’t matter to them; all they care about is obeying their savage cult, maintaining their macho “honour” and winning the approval of their co-religionists in doing so.

        Humans like us? No, more like humans who lived 1,400 years ago. But while they live HERE, they should never be allowed to ignore our laws; and up to now that’s exactly what they have been doing.

      • GEOFFREY CHARLES ELLIOTT. // April 4, 2017 at 10:37 pm // Reply

        http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/christian-attacks.aspx
        http://www.mrctv.org/blog/450-452-suicide-attacks-2015-were-made-muslim-terrorists
        http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm/blog_id/65897
        http://www.barenakedislam.com/2015/06/20/wild-bill-for-americaand-for-england/
        Europe tore down the structure of Christianity years ago.They did not understand that was the only thing that actually protected them.Now the Muslim Hordes are upon us,from within,now Islam is on the rise,and we are powerless to stop more and more migrants/ Rapefugees from destroying us and our country.Our Government now even protect the Islamic Rapists.They even suppress the truth about the threat to all of us from that perveted religion.Whatever Wars we won,were all for nothing.To all of you who are grovelling to Muslims,we need to rise up now,they are the most serious threat to our citizens.We have to fight our enemies,an enemy that seeks and celebrates our deaths,and attacks vulnerable people.We must not succumb to terror.The policy of policy of appeasement practised by our weak and pathetic,spineless leaders,has not worked.Oir Judeo-Christian foundations are cracking and crumbling,and now under continuous attack.Muslims have no love,or mercy or forgiveness,they have no sense of reason or respect for Human life,just look how they treat their women and girls.There is only hate in their hearts,just look how they treat all animals,just Google up:Dead dog Jihad,and you will see how they are now torturing dogs and cats,and have
        started crucifying them on mainland Europe,they have now started poisoning
        dogs in Britain.To deny a problem,that only encourages it to exist.Islam is just not compatible with Western Society.Brave men,like my ancestors fought and died in Two World Wars for our freedoms,as did countless others.I believe our country is worth fighting for,do you?

    • GCE, your criticism of Alan is as well-founded (sic) as that you directed at me.

      Perhaps you could re-read what he wrote?

    • Thank you Geoffrey, I agree. Appeasement will work against us. We need be strong as our ancestors were in war, for war is what it is.

    • Geoffrey, I think we are all trying to get to grips with this problem which we face.

      I am not sure that one single approach will succeed. We each have our own ideas about what needs to be done. It probably will be a combination of factors which need to be addressed.

      My area of especial concern is the non-stun religious abattoirs. Maybe someone else is concerned about face veiling. Someone else seriously worried about Sharia courts, first cousin marriage, “honour” killing etc. With enough people working on it, we can tackle all of these.

      I try to show kindness to the Muslims that I meet. Who knows, my approach might cause them to give up their medieval barbarism and come and join us in the 21st century? Possibly wishful thinking, and it may not often happen. Those that are apostates are the severest critics of Islam. That is why they face the death penalty for apostacy. The more apostates there are, the more Islam will shrivel up.

  13. An excellent article Alan. Well said. UKIP must take a stand to protect and defend our hard won but easily lost democracy. Without it no-one is safe from totalitarian rule either by Sharia Law or indeed by politically correct Cultural Marxism.

  14. I have long argued that the fight against Sharia Law is so that we can ensure the rights of all who live in the U.K. and that there were many who came here expecting freedom, only to be re-entrapped into Sharia thanks to the enablement of it by cowardly Governments. Women especially are disadvantaged by having to live under these Sharia Laws in Britain, and we are not protecting young girls either.
    It is perfectly sensible to come at it from this standpoint.

    However, thanks to the enabling of some radical preachers in schools and mosques, we must be aware that the young Muslims are now as brainwashed about Islam as our children have been about white guilt by the British education system. So the task is not as easy as it would seem to be.

    I would be delighted, Alan, if you or Anne Marie Waters, or anyone with a complete understanding would write an article on the full aspects of the Sharia Law, how it is argued for by Muslim scholars and how we can have a coherent and simple all encompassing argument as to why they are wrong. We need to be completely clear about our arguments, and not be able to be thrown off course by accusations of racism or Islamophobia. That would apply to our spokespeople too, we need to be confident that they will back us up. I still see on Twitter references to the fact that UKIP now supports aspects of Islam, which, after Stoke, the Leadership will need to be able to deal with. I hope the NEC will see the sense of enabling Anne Marie Waters to be UKIP’s spokesperson on this issue.

    Irrespective of Brexit, this must be UKIP’s cause, if we leave it any longer it will be too late – already the U.K. Is changing, and we must challenge it, for no-one else will, I think we would get support from a silent minority of the Muslim community, if not open support.

    • Hi Dee, I’m happy to do an article soon about Sharia law and courts in the UK, especially their discrimination against women, as I’ve been closely watching and researching them since 2010.

    • Dee, time really is running out. We probably have only two general elections (2020 and 2025) which will be relatively democratic. Beyond 2030 the demographics will have changed such that we are beyond the point of no return.

      Why do women vote for pro-Islamic parties? They and their daughters will become second class citizens even if they do convert. Being a dhimmi only seems to be an option once Islam is firmly in control. The transition period seems to be “convert or die”.

      I do think that women are the key. In the UK Labour is becoming the party of Islam. If women can be convinced of this truth, and that it is not good for them, then we might stand a chance. Otherwise not. See this by Pat Condell:

      http://www.patcondell.net/women-defend-yourselves/

    • > a coherent and simple all encompassing argument as to why they are WRONG

      IMO, it is not mainly a question of right or wrong. It is mainly a question of Sharia’s compatibility with the societal norms and values of “the West”. I was raised under precisely those conditions.

      IMO Sharia is, in parts, compatible with these (e.g., IN GENERAL, any exceptions ignored, bearing false witness, taking the property of others, killing etc. are condemned – who could disagree?) but, in parts, Sharia is incompatible with these.

      As one cannot pick and choose within the Sharia, we can only consider it as a whole.

      Thus, Sharia is incompatible.

      While the UK remains a non-Islamic (majority**) country, reasonable Muslims, however devout, would say the Sharia cannot be the law of the land. The two questions that follow are:

      (a) How long will that (**) remain the case? See (1)-(7) within http://www.ukipdaily.com/ukip-islam-necessary-debate-part-ii/

      (b) To what extent are people who, in the interim, choose to subject themselves to Sharia (and specifically, to the jurisdiction of so-called “Sharia courts” (sic)) exercising free choice? Is this always or almost always truly voluntary? Is there significant peer or family pressure? Do they have enough information on which to make an informed decision?

  15. I used to think along those lines, not anymore, Muslims won’t show us any respect, they’re here as hostile invaders. I already regard ourselves as being at war with Islam, the terrorist attacks will keep getting worse until it breaks out into all out war.

    Being pacifists is what got us into this mess, along with betrayal from our successive governments: it’ll get us killed.

    This is the reality we face, you need to watch all of it.

    https://youtu.be/BPKqM-TV2i8

    • I have to say, Flyer, after watching that, there is very little to say except UKIP must do what it can but really, it is useless, we must, those that are able, prepare to fight – I doubt the young will have the stomach for it, though. What else can we do?

    • Flyer, thanks for the link. Unless we start to fight back then our country is lost. The first battle is removal of the governments which are allowing it.

      Once again “where is UKIP”?

  16. A very well argued article. Yes we must treat Muslims as our fellow men and women, respecting them and discoursing with them in a reasonable way.

    Those who I have met range from being non-observant and essentially athiest through to being seriously observant, and more or less closed off from discussion. In between there are those who do believe the Koran and yet are willing to have a conversation. These are the ones who are most fruitfully engaged with.

    Be aware though that it is not possible for a believing Muslim to have a non-Muslim as a friend. The Koran clearly states: “do not take the Jews and Christians for your friends”. It is indeed possible to be friendly, and yet there will always be a barrier.

    I have a feeling that if we do assert good, decent, British values, and explain the reasons why, then the Islamic community will respect us for that. Maybe begrudgingly at first. At the moment Labour, Lib Dems and Conservatives are giving them whatever they demand, and it is seen as weakness and timidity. Which it is of course.

    • Hugo, Your last paragraph was a point made recently by Tommy Robinson. And he should know.

    • You’re right Hugo, The politically-correct mainstream are weak and timid and simply tip-toe around on Islamic eggshells. UKIP must break out and take a much more robust line. In my view we should start by banning the anti-social face-veil from all public buildings and public transport.

      • Alan, We need to work out a list of what areas to tackle. The list needs to be prioritised according to:
        1. Likelihood of success. Politics is the art of the possible.
        2. Likelihood of support from the public, not just from politics geeks like us.
        3. Impact. It must be central rather than peripheral.
        4. Whether the short term success fits into the longer term task or not. No use winning a battle if that then prevents us from winning the war.

        In short, we need to put our heads together and get smart. There probably is only one chance to get this right, and so we must pick our battles carefully.

        • Absolutely agree, Hugo. As you say, 2020 is our last chance to get people, especially women, to be really aware of the dangers of Sharia. One thing we can be fairly sure of, if UKIP is still going, whatever we say will be News. But I also agree with Panmelia that I personally find the word ‘respect’ extremely hard to swallow.
          There are anti-Halal petitions circulating all the time, with 100s of thousands of signatures. For some reason, people focus on that, rather than the repressive Sharia, which is so disrespectful, harmful and downright disgusting as far as how to treat women and gay people. Of course, it is all linked, we just have to link it without frightening the horses – although many of us say we should be frightening people, it may not be productive. They need to listen, not turn off.

      • And what’s sauce for the goose should serve equally for the gander…

        Muslim population in the UK – 5% [ONS; believed by many to be significantly understated]
        Number of mosques in the UK – 1,800 [BBC; believed by many to be significantly understated]

        Christian population in Saudi Arabia – 4.5% [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Saudi_Arabia
        1.5+m out of 33.5m]
        Number of churches in Saudi Arabia – _ZERO_ [accuracy guaranteed]

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