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Letters to the Editor – Tuesday 10th October 2017

The first letter today, from our correspondent Roger Arthur, looks at the ‘divorce payments’ we’re allegedly have to pay the EU. The numbers are interesting:

Sir,

Over the years our Contract with the EU has been varied by Treaties. We did not vote for those treaties and the UK government had little or no influence over some of them. Those were effectively “variations to contract (VTC)” which must surely be on the Brexit balance sheet, as they would be in the commercial world.

The first VTC example is the original Treaty on Freedom of Movement for migrants, “with jobs”. But the words “with jobs” were massaged out, with the result that around 25% of migrants now come without jobs. The cost of that should be accounted for.

Then Blair axed our EU rebate, costing the UK £9.3billion between 2007 and 13, in exchange for “CAP reform”. Extrapolating that to 2019 would double the loss to around £18.6billion, less any CAP benefits to the UK – which may be negligible.

Also, the EU “no-bail-out” clause 125 was abandoned, followed by EU demands that the UK should contribute directly to Eurozone bail-outs. Clearly UK contributions to bailouts should also be on the balance sheet.

We could also cite the fact that the UK spends 0.5% more of GDP on defence than the EU average, or that we pay £2 for every £1 given back to the UK by the EU, or that the EU has had black holes in its accounts for over 20 years, all of which should be on the balance sheet. Then we should include the value of EU assets, which have been funded by the UK.

So the big question is why has the UK agreed to pay the EU £20bn, without consideration of the above and without a statement upon the tangible benefits (if any) which have been negotiated in exchange?

The EU always seems to say that whatever the UK offers is not enough. They are clearly not negotiating in good faith but are running down the clock, hoping for a UK government to capitulate as the Greeks did.

To counter that, we must hope that the PM has been working up a viable contingency exit plan, which may convince the EU that they will not be able to continue with their blocking tactics for much longer. But like the nuclear deterrent, it will only work if the other side knows that it is there and that it is truly viable.

So please Mrs May, how did you account for what the EU owes the UK, what benefits did you obtain in exchange for the £20bn promise to the EU and what is your emergency exit plan?

Respectfully, Roger Arthur

The next letter comes from our correspondent Cllr Paul Foyster, who looks at the challenges the Party now has to face after the election of the new leader:

Sir,

Some members complain that Henry and others are turning UKIP into a “mainstream” party. They seem to forget that the establishment and their MSM friends have spent years carefully trying to prevent us becoming just that. They have used every smear in the book, constantly exposed leaders and candidates to forensic examination of a type never applied to other parties and have frequently exaggerated or even invented detrimental material when none existed. The cosy Lab/Con/Lib power sharing alliance don’t want competition, a fairer electoral system or to listen to the popular voice of the people. Above all they don’t want to lose their jobs.

Protest groups rarely achieve anything. We gained and won the referendum by being a threat to the seats of the ruling elites, both Left and Right. To do that we had to play by the establishment’s rules and get people elected, especially at local level, which we did with considerable success.

We need to get even, not to get angry. To achieve change, we must change too. Only by offering the public a sensible, reasonable set of policies, that they are unafraid to support, can we make progress. The EU is of course still a key issue, so many of our problems stem from membership and both Government and opposition wish to remain as close to Brussels as possible. The prime example being that without border control we can’t solve some of the most serious. It matters not if we still have a limited number of migrants, the point is that we must get to select who we let in, the terms under which we accept people and how many of them come here. The number will vary from year to year, according to need, thought it will be much smaller than now.

Electoral reform, education, defence, law and order, housing and energy are all key issues on which we must have clear policies and there are many other areas where we must at least have an agreed direction of travel. We must select policies that are best for the country, irrespective of where they come from. What matter is right or wrong, not Right or Left.

Henry has much to do, he also has to talk to the other candidates who have remained loyal, to his remaining elected representatives, area management, HQ staff, the NEC, and he says he will be talking directly to groups of branches. All at the same time as continuing to earn his living.  

Please, this time, support the new leadership team without sniping, If they fail to revitalise us the party will be over. There is no viable alternative, for the membership or the country. If we fail to get this right it will be back to the old 3 party system for many years.  Do we really want that?

Respectfully, Cllr. Paul Foyster

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About Vivian Evans (258 Articles)
Vivian is a UKIP patron, Vice Chair of UKIP Cardiff and Editor in Chief of UKIP Daily

28 Comments on Letters to the Editor – Tuesday 10th October 2017

  1. For Julian and Icini, I recommend reading/watching Kenneth Clark’s ‘Civilisation’, the first chapter in which he describes the descent of Europe into the dark ages following the defeat of Rome by invading barbarian hordes.”It does seem hard to believe that European civilisation can ever vanish, and yet you know it has happened once…in the last few years we’ve developed an uneasy feeling that this could happen again, and advanced thinkers, who even in Roman times thought it fine to gang up with the barbarians, have begun to question if civilisation is worth preserving….civilisation collapsed because it was exhausted….at first, the barbarians were half-Romanised and helped to carry on the administration of the Empire, but gradually the great system broke down. Into Italy poured successive waves of invaders who were destructively hostile to what they couldn’t understand …of course, here and there life must have gone on in an apparently normal way for much longer than one would expect.. civilisation drifted downstream a long time, but in the mid-7th century appeared Islam, and within 50 years, the classical world was gone.” I suggest Julian and Icini are living in some of those here and there places, agreeably drifting downstream, buoyed by the authority they have as councillors. Don’t forget, it was 700 years from the appearance of Islam until the conquest of Constantinople, an event that occurred only 525 years ago. In 175 years, on present trends, are you confident European civilisation will still exist? Hence both parts of the party need to reunite, if some of the leading personalities have removed themselves there is no reason why those members who support what AMW says should not remain as members. There is no reason why UKIP should not have the confidence to stand up for European civilisation. We cannot follow the Tories down the path of slavishly aping labour with the result that voters have a choice between blue socialism or red communism. Henry should apologise for the national socialism remarks, make clear he welcomes AMW voters to remain in UKIP, and root UKIP in defence of European civilisation. Please, everyone, watch the first 20 minutes of this:
    https://youtu.be/w6qYjisp51M

    • I Have never called anyone in Ukip a Nazi. During elections candidates say what they need to in order to win, we like you, fight for why we believe is right.
      Thanks for the history lesson, it’s accurate and I am interested in the fall of Rome. I was standing there, in the Forum, two weeks ago. ( On the way in my local bus ran into an army land rover, you can imagine the excitement !).
      Alien religions and sects of all sorts, do represent a threat to those of another belief. It happens all the time and it’s different on each occasion. We are but motes of dust in the eye of History.
      I have no problem with AMW voters remaining in UKIP, provided they fully support Henry and restrict their their very strong opinions on Islam to debates in their branch and not where the MSM can use their words to damage us.
      The only chance we have of surviving as a party is to be visibly united, without that we will disappear and have no influence on the way government deals with the challenges that our country faces, including fundamental Islam. That unity has to continue until we are at least out of the EU and hopefully for years afterwards.
      In my opinion the Waterites have a choice now, stay and fight with UKIP without making waves or join her new party and shout as loud as they like.

  2. Just because I voted for someone other than Mr Bolton doesn’t give anyone, especially Ukip members the right to call me racist, a Nazi, I wont go on, its pathetic. When we were all together trying our hardest every single day, especially at Brexit stalls, we were called racist, maybe not so much Nazi lovers, however you become oh so bored with it all. Now some are being called the same WITHIN the party, by so called hierarchy and other members. It is now even more boring. It comes down to trust in the end – Can Kippers honestly say, hand on heart, that they trust the very people who led us into battle as Brexiteers, then who disappeared like a puff of smoke,if so I feel sorry for them. The jury is out for me. My choice is simple, to stay waiting for a positive, decent, voice which then actually delivers (or not) or do I take the bull by the horns and stick up for my country, my values that are corroding even as I write……..I am willing to wait a while, but life is short so it won’t be a L O N G wait

  3. I thought that all the ‘AMW is a goddess’ people had poked off. It seems not. Sour grapes.

    JF

    • True but not quite so many of them around now they have lost their “saviour”.
      I’m pleased with Henry but thankful to all those who voted against AMW, who is about to learn that she does not have thousands of supporters after all.

      • Do you mean all those Nazis Henry and Nigel referred to? Always sad to see the hubris in a ‘winner’. Its that special lack of grace…

      • It might help if you pair (icini and JF) showed a little bit of decency and magnanimity in your “victory” over AMW supporters and tried to reunite the party. There is a common enemy out there called the liberal elite and their Antifa supporters who would call you both racists and happily spit in your face.

        AMW supporters might not be 100% perfect UKIP members in your view, but that does not make them some kind of lower form of life and they have just as much right to post here as you have.

        • You think that AMW has helped unite the party? Those of her supporters who remain in UKIP will continue to be welcome, provided that they now get behind the new leadership. She has thrown her toys from the pram, left and is now in direct competition to us, as her website says. That makes her fair game. I hold her in very low esteem which is why I have fought against her just as hard as I have done against local Tories. That’s what happens in elections.

          • It isn’t AMW’s job to unite the party. She lost the leadership election and has made her choice.

            It is Henry Bolton’s job, but he has said of 2,755 hard working UKIP members that UKIP would have become “the UK Nazi Party” if their candidate had won.

            It is also Nigel Farage’s job as the leader of our group in the European Parliament. Instead he said of 2,755 hard working UKIP members that we would have had “BNP-style” policies if their preferred candidate had won.

            As long as those comments stand, those 2,755 members have good reason to doubt their loyalty to those two men when HB and NF think that about them, haven’t they?

  4. Just out interest how many of you think that the job losses announced by BAE systems today are down to government defence spending cuts or the effects of brexit itself biting in.

    • The idea that the cuts are anything to do with Brexit is risible. The UK government has been betraying our defence industries for decades. In the same way that HMG has sold out the UK’s nuclear industry, they have been selling out one of the prime means we have to earn a living in a post-brexit world.

      JF

    • I don’t see how they can be connected to Brexit. The currency depreciation can only help exports. The problem would seem to be erratic defence procurement, from MoD and foreign customers. And I guess BAE also in a sulk about the government announcing it would open up warship procurement beyond BAE. Choosing US planes to put aboard the carriers probably didn’t help either. You have to wonder what the point of these carriers is, who are we going to attack with them? HMS Ocean and her ilk seemed perfectly suitable for the tasks at hand. Anyway, I guess a couple of hundred million out of the foreign aid budget spent on planes would solve the problem, but that would make the tory party look nasty so will never happen.

  5. So far, the silence out of HB is growing louder daily. What kind of leader will he be? I hope he can make UKIP a broad church where 100 flowers bloom. Unfortunately, my limited dealings with him prior to the election suggest he is more a ‘my way or the highway’ kind of guy, as can be seen with his treatment of AMW and her followers. I’m still looking for him to take some action to show what kind of leader he will be. With Farage holding an impromptu fund raiser in Clacton over the weekend, I am starting to think that this issue of him getting paid a salary is a big deal and I wonder if he is digging his heels in until this issue of money gets resolved? I would like him to make a big speech explaining how he came to go from Libdem to UKIP, what his core beliefs are, how he intends to lead, who his team will be and what actions he will be taking to implement his manifesto. I suggest he needs to do a tour of the regions ASAP to get in front of ordinary members and let them know that he is here for them. At the moment this is looking like the invasion of Iraq, great military victory but no day 1 plan for rebuilding the country. For example, how does he feel about the ‘Out Now’ campaign, launched at conference but not followed up at all by HB? Without his support and push it is turning into a damp squib.

    • You actually think he can talk to so many people and prepare a valid policy speech within about a week ?
      Remember his election was a surprise to us all, no doubt including him.

      There can be no doubt about his bravery. James tries to do that talking and simply gave up, it was too difficult for her. Paul made some silly mistakes and immediately got shredded by both the MSM and his own party.

      It’s going to take some considerable skill to get a consensus and I’m sure you don’t want him to just do his own thing without consulting those who have to sell his policies. I think Henry has the required skills and experience and I don’t mind waiting a few weeks. We have perhaps some 6 months to get our act together, surely it’s better to get it right first time.

      Henry has commented on several issues, with the media analysing every single word, ready to jump on anything that could damage us and ignoring anything that helps UKIP. More frequent updates would of course be welcome but a little patience is in order.

      • 4 months election process plus 6 months to get act together = 10 months…….

        • Re; HB’s ‘my way or the highway’ style, I just saw his reply to a tweet (why he is replying to tweets from random people I don’t know) where his original tweet says ‘UKIP will mobilise’ and when someone makes a snide comment he responds with ‘Watch and Learn’! Perhaps this kind of attitude worked in the army but it isn’t how you herd cats. It’s also called making a rod for your own back. OK, let’s sit back and ‘watch and learn’…..

          • Somebody needs to have a word with Henry Bolton and warn against engaging with individuals on Twitter. After his “absolutely, yes” UKIP under AMW would be the Nazi Party gaffe, he Tweeted me to say that it wasn’t his fault, it was George Osborne’s fault. Seriously. There’s nothing to be gained by such Tweets and much to lose.

    • I suspect he wants out. His heart isn’t in it. As icini said he himself didn’t expect to win but his tremendous CV won over the old guard.
      As AMW pointed out in her latest video, Henry wants to approach and work with the Muslim community and outline his plans for abolishing Sharia in the UK. Depending on the particular section of the Muslim community he approaches he may not make it out alive.

      And yes from LibDem in 2014 to UKIP… sorry but that is just weird.

      • Weird only for those who think it’s perfectly normal to leave Labour for Ukip after having been refused a PPC spot on a Labour list …

      • Why weird? John Cleese, the most famous non-elected Lib Dem voted leave after all?

      • His time with the Libdems was when THEY promoted the idea of a referendum on Europe and had MPs. Ring a bell?

        • I’d just like to hear from him what it was that prompted his move. Sorry to those who say people join from labour and tory all the time, the difference here is that he is the leader, not your average member! It is unusual, nay unprecedented, for a party leader to have belonged to another party as recently as three years ago. Or can anyone name a single similar example?

          • The current co-leader of the Green Party, Jonathan Bartley, was an assistant in John Major’s team when Major was fighting John Redwood for the Tory leadership in 1995.

  6. Two excellent letters.

    In respect of UKIP becoming a mainstream party: I want UKIP to be a mainstream party. Who doesn’t? I want UKIP councillors like Paul Foyster everywhere you look, I want the commons stuffed full with UKIP MPs, I want UKIP ministers in government. Who doesn’t?

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