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Letters to the Editor – Thursday 5th October 2017

We’re still dealing with the fall-out from the leadership election of seven days ago and that is reflected not only in articles and comments but also in the letters. The first one today is from our contributor Alan Piper. His letter reflects that a way forward, away from the current polarisation, is vital and not impossible:

Sir,

Just before all the conference excitement, I posted an article called “Joining the dots”. It fell off the UkD radar rather quickly, replaced with Viv’s excellent eye witness conference reports but I invite people to search and read it again because of the link below, Farage’s recent speech and Q&A session with AfD. Judge for yourself:

2 things of note.

  1. He is still a great speaker. And
  2. He apparently has no idea of the roots of the EU.

According to him, it all started in the 50’s rather than post first war. We know better. Coudenhove-Kalergi, Vernon Coleman, Michael Shrimpton, etc.

But it also reinforces my belief, shared by some here but not remotely grasped by the electorate, that current events are deliberate, a work in progress and islamification is inextricably linked to Germany’s long held desire to dominate Europe economically and subjugate its population.

In spite of the leadership distractions I’m doing my best to get this out there because I suggest if the electorate become aware that it’s all deliberate, they will get angry and start to demand change. Whether home-counties Henry gains or AMW (who I voted for and have sent the details to) I don’t mind, notwithstanding being an ex-Tory, ukip, racist nazi, allegedly…

His reaction to AMWs specialist subject has always bothered me and that video tells me that Nigel does not make the connection, that it’s ongoing and deliberate. Either that or he’s talking to a German audience and avoiding mentioning the war etc. Which he does by the way.

I may be wrong but I’m starting to feel that joining the dots and getting message out there is becoming increasingly important , whoever leads what Party, because the electorate need to realise the extent to which they’ve been played. And it’s certainly not going to come from the lib/lab/cons, or as a complete picture from Nigel apparently.

Respectfully, Alan Piper

Today’s other letter is looking back on the events. It’s by “UKIP’s Conscience” who has posted many comments on UKIP Daily. We publish it as it came in, unedited, because while we must look ahead, right now we should perhaps not exclude the voices of those who now feel bereft:

Sir,

So it’s over, time to reflect.  I don’t know how they did it but the party hierarchy won the day with their candidate getting first place and they managed to manipulate support for a new logo which many people never wanted in the first place.

The reaction of some people to the election of Henry Bolton was stunned incredulity, I didn’t know anyone who voted for him and certainly less who expected him to be anywhere but at the bottom of the list. To be fair some people in the hall had anticipated this and at the time I suspected something had been going on out of sight and it seems the Welsh and the councillors’ organisation had a big part in his election.  When it was announced that AMW was second there were big cheers from some and a shout behind me “He’s won”. So it seems some were in on the scheme.

There is deep suspicion about the result because it does not reflect people’s experience of the hustings. This doesn’t mean it was not lawful, it looks like there was some very effective third party campaigning behind the scenes which was kept quiet.  I do not think Henry’s election reflects the will of the wider party. However, congratulations to those who orchestrated it, they outmanoeuvred the rest.  In doing so I believed they signed UKIP’s death warrant.  Henry is a most unsuitable winner, he was elected because of what he has done, not for what he might do.  His first twenty four hours were disastrous. He disowned many core UKIP policies before being put right and correcting himself on Sunday. He has no core principles but is a puppet to be manipulated.  He would have been a good chairman, I believe he has good organisational skills, but essentially he is a bureaucrat, not the inspirational leader we needed.

I cannot understand Nigel’s attitude these days. Like every Kipper, I would have followed the Nigel of 12 months ago anywhere with an unswerving belief that he is always right on issues.  He has always been a poor judge of people, witness the many lemons he put into responsible positions. Now Nigel speaks with two voices, firstly agreeing with AMW then calling her a racist.

However what is done is done, The strutting of our senior managers after the election announcement says it all. UKIP has been captured by a small handful of people who believe their opinions count above all others. Granted they appear to have Nigel on side, but Nigel’s star is in serious decline. He has dismissed the view of a lot of core members who were his best activists.  There have already been many resignations and I expect the floodgates to open in the next few days as people take stock of what has gone on.  The structure was crumbling and it will continue to do so.

Henry is not my leader. My days in UKIP are numbered. It is now beyond redemption.

Respectfully, “UKIP’s conscience”

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About Vivian Evans (240 Articles)
Vivian is a UKIP patron, Vice Chair of UKIP Cardiff and Editor in Chief of UKIP Daily

42 Comments on Letters to the Editor – Thursday 5th October 2017

  1. Sorry that should have been ” shove “

  2. We should all be pushing for a proper peerage for Nigel. Not a K.Sove out an ex MP to make room.

  3. The petition below is outside the scope of this post but strategically on topic for the Blog:

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/200165

    It has reached its present level (45.000) quite quickly, but is losing momentum. I hope UKIP members will sign it and distribute it to give it some more welly.

  4. Eliza

    Keep pushing about that website.

    Our lot seem to have no ideas and websites and leaflets etc are uninspiring. And now logo ,attractive only because of the pretty purple and white ring.

    I love conspiracy theories. Usually only for a few moments. But if you apply the odds to all the things that have happened to ukip. I reckon we’re due Godzilla shortly.

    However I like the “out now” leaflet . Only one and a quarter years late, but there you go. Except it might be taken as advice to our esteemed PM. ‘Cause it’s not yellow and purple.

  5. Its time to go forward. The election is over. However I see no initiatives from the leadership or NEC at the moment. I’ve had enough of talking about Nigel Farage too.
    Unless we engage with the big subjects- like housing and the terrible drop in our standard of living- then its all p*** and wind.
    There is no way on earth that UKIP can gain ground without a surge in membership. To do that means some radical new ideas regarding the infrastructure and the economy. I have them, you might have them, but there is nothing concrete coming from the leadership. Just more waffle about Brexit- which is happening- , Islam and things that really do not matter in everyday reality.
    Get a bloody move on.

  6. UKIP's Conscience // October 6, 2017 at 11:37 am // Reply

    It has been a little sickening watching HB trying to steal AMW clothes after so vilely attacking her. Actually, its Leave.eu/Aaron Banks who seems to be putting words in his mouth. I think they realise they have screwed up good style. Even Nigel is desperately rowing back. I wonder how many resignations this week? All history now, AMW launches next week. Exciting future for me.

  7. I’m going to leave the leadership stuff alone now. What matters is moving forward not looking back.
    I hope the AMW people will grasp that the “new” UKIP will not ignore the threat of fundamental Islam and that we will continue to work towards a sensible solution, hopefully without triggering some sort of hate campaign. Proper Brexit and better democracy are more important right now.
    I await the announcement of the new team with great interest and will do all I can to support them, as will nearly all of my branch.

  8. If you take the lowest voted candidate and repeatedly add about 4% you get the amount the next candidate scored, but Henry stands out as having 9% more than the second.

    An impressive win based on an impressive background and maybe…

    We know that many members saw AMW as the great destroyer of UKIP, so they may have considered who is the best anti-AMW to vote for in a large field: Jane Collins? Peter Whittle? David Kurten? all in with high points, but surely the most anti-AMW was Henry Bolton.

    He won by a large margin and good luck to him and UKIP.

  9. PurplePottymouth // October 5, 2017 at 9:47 pm // Reply

    I sometimes wonder if I was in the same hall last Friday. Yes of course there were gasps. Many of us went to Torquay resigned to the strong likelihood of Anne-Marie winning, then the outsider comes up on the inside and overtakes. Cheers of relief mostly, bearing in mind the concerns that most of us had about the future of our party. And justly deserved cheers for Anne-Marie for polling so well in the face of all the flack thrown her way. Bookies had her a strong second most of the way through although she took the lead towards the end with many. They got that right and Whittle horribly wrong! Ditto Henry & David Kurten – but I could have told you from the feedback I was getting that both were going to do better than the odds predicted – not that I would have predicted Henry’s decisive win. You should note that his team, which included Chris Mendes were putting out promotional videos & links on UKIP facebook groups at the crucu=ial time – when members were filling in their ballots.

  10. In Spanish Nigel Farage “es un hombre de excepción”.
    He is unique and though his uniqueness comes with certain faults it is/was a price worth paying. No-one else in Europe could have done what he did a herculean task and one that dominated his life for more than 20 years.
    I do not deny him his liberty now to do what he wants to do. Bear in mind the loneliness of his early political years surrounded by ‘batty nutters’ and hounded by the press as a fruitcase. Bear in mind when he and UKIP began to have an impact he was ‘offered’ a forked choice a) come and join the tories and MPship plus maybe the Cabinet and v.def HoL after loyal service.
    b) death threats not just to him but his family and shamefully no help from the Home Office nor the EU (he was an MEP)and inc attempts on his life.
    I consider it an honour to have met him on various occasions and will always cherish the photo he sent me.
    Diane James was chosen by the members; she was pathetic.
    Paul Nuttal PhD nuclear physics, CDM, St.G.Cross and bar was chosen by the members.
    I spoke out against both and campaigned for JRE ( who I wish the best of luck in his new venture).
    Henry Bolton has been chosen by the members. There was no cheating and no fix. Active (voting) membership of UKIP is dominated by people like iceni and julian flood. People who live in tory England in detached or semi detached houses near a golf course in a market town. These people have little experience of the lives of other people in Burslem or Burnley or Bradford or Walsall, West Bromwich, Wolverhampton. We are a divided nation.
    Brexit is the prize for some Fame Is The Spur. Events are in any event going to overturn the applecart. In May, May may go.Poland may decide to join UK with Pexit. Sweden may start being burned down.
    Don’t give up! Don’t give up! Tell your grandchildren about The Stirrings in Sheffield On Saturday Night( something still to come).

    • I do live in a market town, one swamped by migrants from Eastern Europe and who voted heavily for Brexit, which locals Tories did not actively campaign for. As for those Tories, try walking into the district council chamber containing 23 of them and a small handful of independents and Ukipers, No labour or Lib members and having just spent the past few months telling everyone what a shower they are. My daughter lives in Leeds, I have visited several muslim countries. I am aware of the problems. I just don’t agree with most of the solutions proposed by one of the leadership candidates.
      You should also remember that my main priority is to represent the people who elected me and the wider community in my ward. That was UKIP policy last time I looked. People before party.
      As for Nuttall, we spent as much time slagging him off as the other parties did and I suspect he did not want the poisoned chalice of leadership in the first place. Bolton has guts, experience, good organisational and negotiating skills and believes what he says. Leave him to do his job without unfounded criticism.

      Yes, I will review our progress in 6 months and then decide if UKIP has a future or not.

      • “My daughter lives in Leeds, I have visited several muslim countries. I am aware of the problems. I just don’t agree with most of the solutions proposed by one of the leadership candidates.”

        What IS your solution, Icini? As far as I can see your ‘solution’ is not talking about it except in general platitudes about all religions having to integrate. Meanwhile their numbers double every 12 years and we face a Muslim majority by 2050.

      • You don’t HAVE any answer, do you, Icini? Just repeat useless platitudes and howl down anyone who tries to discuss it while western civilisation in Europe crashes and burns.

        Once it becomes the European Islamic Union, whether we’re in or out of it won’t be your or your children’s decision any more, because the Muslims will be a majority here too.

    • Citizen, you make far too many assumptions! I was born and lived in a 100 year-old, two-up, two-down terrace with no indoor sanitation, in a northern, very industrial town, until I was in my early twenties. That was when my Labour-supporting family moved to a council house during a slum clearance programme. I no longer live in that town but most of my remaining family does and I visit often but I don’t believe that having grown up in poverty disqualifies me in any way from voting for Henry Bolton. Had he not stood, I may well have resigned my membership which runs to 2010, because I regarded the other candidates as mediocre in the extreme, if not downright odd.

      In voting for Henry Bolton, I was one of the near eighty percent of voting members who supported a candidate other than Anne Marie Waters, as is every member of my branch. All bar one of us voted for Henry Bolton but I can think of none who fits your stereotypical image of a Henry Bolton supporter.

      Yesterday evening, I attended a very lively meeting of a reinvigorated branch, where our members were delighted with the election result and looking forward getting stuck into working to support Brexit which is their most immediate concern. Gone is the despondency of our last meeting
      when most were talking of leaving UKIP, and that was due to the result of the leadership election.

      • Interesting that you use the argument “X% didn’t vote for Y”, which is a favourite argument used by remainers and Labour voters. Since you brought it up, only 46% of UKIP members bothered to vote, and 70.1% of those who did voted for someone other than Henry Bolton. That means that 21% of UKIP members voted for Henry Bolton. More than for any other candidate, but hardly an overwhelming victory.

        Could you tell us how many members were at that meeting where all but one of you had voted for Henry Bolton please?

        You can’t know how “every member of your branch” voted, since the majority don’t attend meetings.

        • My mistake. 0.46 * 0.299 = 0.13754. Just 13.8% of UKIP members voted for Henry Bolton. Even fewer voted for any other candidate.

          • You’re being both childish and pedantic! Fewer than 10% of the members would have been correct, but I said: less than 10% of the membership which is correct in that case!

        • So, less than 10% of the total membership voted for Anne Marie. I didn’t like to rub that in but the election’s over and done and I’m sorry you’re so unhappy about the result.

          I said a few weeks ago that this site was like an echo chamber: the name Anne Marie bouncing around repeatedly from one correspondent to another, not all members, with prompt attacks on anyone who dared speak against her. The occasional mention of other candidates was largely ignored as though they didn’t exist. It was the same with contributors on social media, the vast majority of whom were not members. I assume all that ‘noise’ convinced her supporters she was so popular she couldn’t possibly lose but, in the final analysis, it is card-carrying members who choose to vote, and who decide the outcome.

          By the way, I find it quite amusing to be accused of sounding like a Labour supporter or remainer when it’s Anne Marie’s supporters, who sound like typical remainers who won’t accept the result

          • Fewer than 10%, not “less than”. Less water, fewer drops of water.

            Where did I say I don’t accept the result? I didn’t, did I? Indeed, I said “Even fewer voted for any other candidate.”

            You’re using another trick typically used by left wingers: mis-stating your opponent’s position and ‘refuting’ that instead of what they actually said.

            Let’s try again, Marie. How many members were at that meeting where all but one of you had voted for Henry Bolton?

          • Is the answer ‘two’?

  11. I would point out that the overwhelming majority of those who bothered voted against AMW. and a simple majority wanted Henry. True that elected representatives voted for him, because we knew that most members of the public would be completely turned off by AMW and she would kill our prospects of becoming electorally viable again.

    I have nothing whatever to do with the party management or leadership and no ambitions beyond my present responsibilities but I do know what my constituents think, they tell me, constantly. I would like to continue to help my town and represent it’s people. I get to actually DO stuff rather than just shout about any particular group, I have significant influence that would disappear if I belonged to an “anti Muslim” party. It was a no brainer. To be any use UKIP has to represent a threat to establishment seats, now we can try and do this again.
    To those members who mistakenly believed AMW would rescue us, she got a small percentage of votes in a UKIP election, she would get far less in a council or parliamentary one. You lost, sorry and all that but get behind whatever team emerges to lead us or try your luck with any of the no hope new parties that will no doubt soon appear, like J R-E’s one. As far as a party capable of being an alternative to the usual suspects is concerned, “there can be only one”….and it’s UKIP. You can either support is or give up and leave the field clear to the old parties.

    • @icini
      You’re making a huge assumption that most members of the public would be turned off by AMW. The public has never been given the opportunity to vote for an openly anti-Islam party. I believe you are sorely out of touch.

      Some of those communities in the UK that would definitely consider voting for such a party in my opinion include

      The British Hindu Community
      The British Sikh Community
      The British Goan Community
      The British Afro-Caribbean Community (ask Trevor Phillips)
      The white working class
      White middle class Brits informed about Islam
      The Eastern European Community
      The Greek\Greek Cypriot Community
      The British African (Christian) Community
      The list goes on and on…
      I suspect all the above communities would just laugh off being called racist having voted for for UKIP

      By the way you still have answered my question.

      Should UKIP do poorly in the local elections in seven months time would you consider it appropriate for Henry Bolton to resign?

      • You’re wasting your time Sean, he ain’t gonna tell you.

        Cos he knows Henry Who might actually be forced to decide.

    • Icini,

      Perhaps you would tell us the name of your town so we may put your views in context?

      • What has the location of where I live got to do with my last post?

        And when are you going to admit the inevitable that UKIP will crash and burn in May next year?

        Who will you blame then or will you come to the realization that Brexit has passed UKIP by and needs to fight other battles if it indeed wants to help the British people.

      • Pardon me JackT I thought I was replying to Icini.

    • Icini123: “As far as a party capable of being an alternative to the usual suspects is concerned, “there can be only one”….and it’s UKIP.”

      The Tories believe in leaving the EU. So does Labour (I think, if it’s a month with an ‘r’ in it). How is UKIP an alternative to the usual suspects there?

      The Tories’ and Labour’s ‘solution’ to the coming Muslim majority in the UK involves refusing to talk about it except in general platitudes about integration, and howling down anyone who does as a racist fascist Nazi. That’s the ‘solution’ of UKIP’s current leadership too. How are we an alternative to the usual suspects there?

      The two defining issues of our time, and with our current leadership we’re not actually an alternative to the usual suspects at all, are we?

  12. Nigel’s still doing a good job. His attendance and invitation to the AfD election rally shows that he has his eyes on the bigger picture. AfD having gained third place in the Bundestag it also shows that he has his finger on the pulse. Proper Brexit will only be possible through exerting influence where ever and when ever.

    • True enough.
      Are posters on here familiar with this site perhaps? I just came across it and I dare say there are others.
      Slick website; plenty of ideas, colourful graphics, leaflets and posters to appeal to a whole range of Remainers and sjw types.
      These people are very determined and are throwing a lot of money behind it.

      http://www.anothereurope.org/all/

      UKIP could do with some information leaflets in similar style to get the EU/Islam issue out there to less than fully aware party members. Unless they know, no one else will.

  13. Surely irrespective of how the individual members voted, the new leader has to be given a chance to unite the party, and turn its fortunes around. The test will come in the local elections in May, (the month, not Teresa)!! I did speak to some Councillors outside our Whittle supporting branch who were very pro Bolton, (the man not the town) and anti Whittle.
    In fairness to Nigel, he was one of only two MEPs I saw still battling for Brexit during the three month leadership election.
    Keep the faith, and keep joining the dots.

  14. The last option before agenda 2030 implementation is finalised has been usurped and ended. In part because most either don’t know or will not speak on what is doing the usurping.

    • Correct,some politicians if not all are Freemasons it is Satanic at the core.
      They all do the masonic hand sign, if you know what to look for you will see them do it from time to time Merkel,Cameron, Trump, May etc.They are puppets and the puppet masters are the Illuminati, “Rothschild dynasty”are the head of the NWO.City of London is a city within a city.Church has also been infiltrated “Welby” is an imposter to lead the flock astray and to accept all profanities.

      Even the 1 dollar bill has the one eye pyramid sign. Check out Henrymakow.com web page Jewish
      convert.Good article about Freemasonry,communism very informative about the decline of Europe.
      Everyone should study the “protocols” and then make your own mind up.
      We are debt slaves to usury and the banksters are our masters.

      • kenneth james ogilvie // October 6, 2017 at 6:06 am // Reply

        Sorry who ever you are but you are talking out of your hat. I am a Mason and the last thing we are is Satanic in fact we a based on the Temple of Solomon.I doubt very much if you would recognise the Mason hand shake as it is rather subtle. The sign you are talking about is allegedly the “Illuminati” which is not Masonic

  15. It seems JRE has left to start another party called Affinity. I don’t think he would have made a great leader but seemed a valuable asset to the party. IMO the party Elite will be pleased but I reckon it’s a shame he’s gone.

  16. Both good letters. Yes Farage’s star is definitely in decline. The Telegraph article was his Gerald Ratner moment.

    I voted UKIP and recently joined but I have to be honest I can’t now wish it the best going forward given everything that’s go on recently. I will be an indifferent observer from the sidelines.

  17. Thought for the day.

    With HB we got the pencil instead of the cross. 🙂

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