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Letters to the Editor – Saturday 2nd September 2017

We’re getting into the final weeks of this long Leadership contest so today’s letters reflect the different opinions of members. The first letter is from our reader Mary Singleton:

Sir,

A coalition is forming to stop Anne Marie, well there’s a surprise. Having failed to stop her getting on the ballot paper initially and then failing to sustain a legal challenge, those who will stoop to anything have fallen back on plan C.  It’s quite an expensive option for those three people.  Marion and David Coburn stood no chance anyway, but Ben would have collected a few votes but still not won.  I hope no one has agreed to pay them their lost deposits! It would be helpful if these three candidates were to publish statements that they had not had a promise to compensate them. If you think I am cynical, you are correct. I do not trust  the people behind the scenes who do not want Anne Marie at any price. The more I see of Anne Marie the more I am confident she is the one for UKIP. She is inspirational and can handle hostile media and that is probably the biggest test for our future leader. She is gaining more support day by day.  UKIP needs the shakeup she will cause. We need to prune our dead wood who are committed to the mediocrity of the centre ground.

Respectfully, Mary Singleton

The second letter comes from our reader and contributor Jim Makin:

Sir,

Much ado about our leadership election, as is right and proper, but I would like to illustrate a point.

As a consequence of the referendum campaign I signed up to the Labour Leave email list (shock! horror!). Since then I would suggest that they seem to me to have been rather more focused on the Brexit cause than our own leadership, but that is by the bye.

Their latest missive to plop into my inbox puts across a serious policy for rebalancing our economy, and I am sufficiently impressed to draw attention to it (watch here). We are used to Labour’s economic and general incompetence so it’s a bit of a surprise to see a well-argued economic case from this quarter, and very encouraging considering the dearth of sensible ideas from other parties (not to mention the Chancellor).

My suggestion to any UKIP Leadership candidate who reads this is that they should seriously consider this proposal – we need a well-founded economic policy to underpin the usual superficial platitudes that get trotted out.

It’s nice to know what objectives a candidate stands for, but for me the winner will be the candidate who can explain how they propose to achieve them.

Respectfully, Jim Makin

Finally, our comment poster ‘icini’ has sent in the following letter:

Sir,

UKIP was formed to save the pound, get a referendum on the EU and to win a leave vote.  We achieved these things against remarkable odds. What we have not yet managed is full escape from control by Brussels, so there is still much work to do on that front.  We do not need to manufacture a new reason to exist, we have not yet left the EU or escaped from all that comes with membership, loss of sovereignty,  open borders, heavy economic migration, European regulations and costs, subservience to France, Germany and the rest.  It’s something that is still very much in the balance and there are also many important secondary targets for our party.  Foreign aid, democracy, vanity projects, education, the gap between rich and poor and so on.

There is a danger that adopting a new main policy that is highly controversial or proposing new laws intended to target one section of our new and older migrant communities or their religion will mask what we are about and simply add to the supply of mud available to the establishment and the rabid hard left.  It’s exactly what our opponents are hoping for.

Those who appear to be mainly concerned with one religion need to start their own new party and cease trying to hijack UKIP.  Since they believe there is great support for that point of view it should do well.  Perhaps they know it will flop, it’s simply not the British way.  We do have freedom of speech, we also have freedom of worship. Neither should be abused.  Leave the problem of the illegals, criminals, terrorists, extremists and abusers to the police and security services and actively help existing legal migrants to integrate and adapt to our cultural norms, whilst retaining the more harmless and reasonable elements of their ancestral identity, as so many previous groups have. It will take time but if we work at it, it we can change things and once we have border control again, the problems will diminish anyway.  Diplomacy, compromise, education and persuasion are reasonable tools to tackle a problem. Hard confrontation simply engenders hatred on all sides, it’s stupid and it rarely works anyway.

We have a reduced and small head office, presently struggling to cope and senior officials who are attacked by all sides, along with the NEC who we all voted for.  Leave them alone now, they made mistakes but I believe they did their best and our survival as a viable party post Nigel is down to their efforts. Our organisational structure is flawed but the new leader will make his or her own decisions and changes, accept them and move on or move out, otherwise we are just another rabble of a protest group.

The election for leader is nearly upon us and I have now decided who to vote for, subject to watching some hustings on Sunday.  It will be someone who understands the art of negotiating, not an individual who seeks to use my party to push a personal agenda.

Respectfully, icini

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29 Comments on Letters to the Editor – Saturday 2nd September 2017

  1. Dear Icini, please reconsider your letter. I think it was a gross misrepresentation of what A-MW and those who agree with her believe. We are not advocating a”new main policy”, as Panmelia says, islamisation has always been a problem.
    What I want to see is that the cowardly political caste that has turned a blind eye to it, that has corrupted the police force so that they can and do turn a blind eye certain lawbreaking, that the cowardly politicos return us to one law Britain or get pushed out. Without one law for all, we cannot become one nation again or one United Kingdom.
    A-MW also says she wants a stronger constitutional foundation for the one that has been systematically trashed by successive governments.
    You say “we do have free speech”. Sorry, where have you been living? Not here evidently. You say” leave terrorists, extremists and abusers to the police”
    What? Where were the police hiding when our YI conference was cancelled by the threats of extreme left-wing thugs.
    It is the establishment politicos and their hangers-on who have ignored and traduced the laws that ought to keep us all safe.
    Incidentally, there must be many, many Muslims who simply want to get on with life, but they are similarly affected by the breakdown and unequal appliance of law. They cannot speak out for fear of the militants and we also have to remember that they are all, moderates and fanatics, reading from the same violent manual.
    Establishing once more – one law for all-, might go a long way to helping the integration we all would like to see. But the root cause of most of UKIP concers IMO is the enfeebled, appeasing attitude of our ruling caste.

  2. “help existing legal migrants to integrate”

    Icini, you are living in cloud cuckoo land, unfortunately.

    Islam has never integrated in fourteen centuries, and never can integrate with any other culture or religion. Make the effort to read the Koran, and you will soon see for yourself why this is so.

    Stop kidding yourself. Try to look at the facts honestly. I sincerely wish that this was not so, but it is. Having accepted the harsh reality of the situation, then we need to work out what to do. Being in denial as you are Icini, cannot and will not solve anything. Just because you want to believe in something, however much you sincerely want it to be so, does not in fact make it to be true.

    • Well said Hugo; many have had years to integrate but have not. Much of the blame for this lies with our own governments who have let them do as they please making the job even more difficult.

      It needs to be a case of “Live in our country; live by our rules” with whatever enforcement is necessary.

    • I agree, Hugo, I fear that many people are either in denial of, like Mrs May appears to do, think we can be one big happy family.
      Even if people don’t read the Koran, please look at the history of Islam – a quick glance will tell you all you need to know.

      • Dee, the Koran very clearly states why integration of Islam is impossible. Since nobody has authority to change the Koran, the lack of integration will never be solved. Useful idiots who think otherwise have evidently not read the Koran:

        “O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you – then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.” Koran 5:51

        “O you who have believed, do not take as intimates those other than yourselves, for they will not spare you [any] ruin. They wish you would have hardship. Hatred has already appeared from their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater. We have certainly made clear to you the signs, if you will use reason.” Koran 3:118

        This is but a small sample. Integration really is impossible, however much we might want it to be possible, it just is not going to happen.

    • I acknowledge we have a problem, but terrorism aside it is not some sort of looming disaster. Several Islamic sects adapted ages ago, the Jews living in Europe manage the trick very well. ( Read the following: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism_and_progressivism_in_the_Muslim_world ). Few Christians wish to resume burning each other and we have updated our faith considerably in recent years. The thing is perfectly possible. As for The Koran, I know all about the bits that are so often quoted but read the old testament as well.
      It’s not the written word that matters so much as the attitude of religious leaders and many of the day to day problems with “Islam” are to do with cultural matters, not religious ones.
      There is a problem with the numbers of migrants, especially recent ones, many of them are not well educated and all are scared stiff of offending co-religionists. They need to be persuaded that their reasonable beliefs are respected but that in return, they need to obey the law and respect the host nation’s cultural norms. We also need to be very careful indeed about who we allow to cross our borders once we have control of them again.

      There is absolutely nothing to be gained by a head on hate match with a religion, no doubt it sounds attractive and a simple solution to some people but such an approach will simply harden attitudes on all sides, history demonstrates that it nearly always makes matters worse and frequently leads to violence.

      • No Icini, the problem is with the younger generation of Muslim men in this country who have been taught Wahhabism by Saudi funded Imams. Their parents may want to live quietly, but if you are a ‘good muslim’ you must do Jihad in some form – there are several not just Terrorism. There is also Dawa, the Political arm of Islam. We are being assaulted from all sides, and it’s deliberate. Unfortunately we are past the point where we can persuade these young men to ‘live reasonably’ instead of being ‘good muslims’. This is one of the reasons they have enthusiastically embraced Rape Jihad.
        It will get us nowhere not to accept the situation we are actually in, rather than hope for a situation to evolve that we would like to be in.

        • Unfortunately Icini does not “get it”, or if he does, then he is being deliberately dishonest.

          Often the converts to Islam are the most radical. Radical – meaning they go too the root of it. They really do study the Koran, and they take seriously the bloody verses in it.

          Icini might prefer to join the Lib Dems, he might find friends there such as Simon Hughes, see this sickening video:
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHZYXOm898Q

          Does Hughes know what the punishment for homosexuality is under Sharia law?

      • “There is absolutely nothing to be gained by a head on hate match with a religion, no doubt it sounds attractive and a simple solution to some people but such an approach will simply harden attitudes on all sides, history demonstrates that it nearly always makes matters worse and frequently leads to violence.”

        Try telling that to the Buddhist and Jewish communities in Afghanistan. What, there are no, or hardly any, Buddhists or Jews there? Why is that then? There certainly have been thriving communities there historically, as you can see by their huge statues of Buddha carved into cliff sides:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamiyan

        And Jews in Afghanistan?
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Afghanistan

        Icini, if you are going to invoke what history demonstrates, please try to look at the wider scope. Unfortunately your stance makes no sense, historically or for the future.

  3. Am I missing something! Ukip forced a referendum there can be no doubt about that. Then they went full out to inform the public about what the EU stood for and succeeded. They had a platform, people could identify with them and they were listened to. I say were because then they proposed ‘putting country before party’, what on earth was that supposed to mean? As far as I can see it was an excuse to abdicate their responsibility of representation. Without ‘the party’ they were never going to put anything before anyone. That is where we are now. This party desperately needs to win support back if it is going to lever any influence over the EU negotiations or force the changes this country needs.
    As far as the economic strategy, consider just two issues. HS2 how would £5 billion help the struggling building industry? Anthropogenic Climate Change, how would cheaper energy support industry? It does not need a John Maynard Keynes. From my perspective governments do not make money they facilitate and are usually more successful by keeping out of the way. Then there is the banks crippling small businesses, or the overseas aid. All I see is corruption, deceit, exploitation, opportunism and incompetence am I just a cynical pessimist?
    In my opinion, unless we rebuild our platform and stop behaving as though Brexit still belongs to us, I see no future. No it is not going well but I believe we need to move on and pull Brexit with us. Answer the public’s questions with honesty, inform, expose enlist the support of the people. They have no one to turn to in the politics of this country. Shortcut the MSM don’t be frightened of them.
    How many years have the police and security forces been dealing with the growing ideology that allows gang rapes, genital mutilation etc. etc.? How many lives are going to be ruined, that’s Muslim and Christian, before something is done? Why can’t we talk about it? Surely these are reasonable questions?

  4. with respect to Jim Makin,

    You mustn’t take any notice of the video. It’s propoganda and rubbish.

    After the war the dollar was 5 to the pound. The slide in the pound is and always has been due to constant massive government overspending because of reducing revenues, caused by closing businesses, caused in turn by overtax ( 19.6in the pound:- 95% ,)reduction of productivity by unions, ( Longbridge coulddn’t get a car out of the doors , and when they did get ouT they were already scrap ). Thatcher and Heath were terrified. Thatcher ran to America for deregulation, and heath ran to Europe. Who were part of the problem. They conquered us .

    The overspending has mainly but not always been due to massive Labour bribery of the population
    .
    OK much has improved over this period. and I’m not exactly impartial. But. The cost has been ridiculous

    The video must not be believed

    I’m exhausted. I must read another letter now.

  5. Mary,

    It is actually good news that this real confrontation is taking place, as UKIP has muddled along for far to long and the infighting has been cruel.
    A big clean out is surely required.

    If Anne Marie wins, then all her opponents should move on and let her get on with her plans.

    If Anne Marie loses then I will expect her, and all her supporters, to leave UKIP and to reform under her ForBritain brand.

  6. Apologies to Editor and readers – ‘If not fit for purpose’ was added then scrapped and I failed to delete.

  7. Icini, I just lost my message so will be brief.

    Regarding four of your references, first,freedom of speech – almost complete erosion of on the major subject of our time.

    New laws? Absolute enforcement for starters of the ones we have is what is being called for. They have stood us in good stead for a long time. If not fit for purpose

    Third, the police and security – little faith re Rotherham etc.; imams reportedly calling the shots in Birmingham; 23,000 mainly unmonitored jihadists in the country.
    It remains to be seen if there will be a significant response, let alone action regarding the YI in Sheffield.

    Fourthly integration; it is not the aim of Islam to integrate.

    We cannot trust our government, our judiciary, or the educational establishment. Cultural Marxism is in their bloodstream.
    On top of that, the EU, the corporatists and Globalists are wreaking additional social and economic havoc across the continent.

    I am a passionate advocate for Brexit, grammar schools for social mobility, return of council housing and scrapping HS2 and maintaining good levels of defence forces. I consider myself reasonably well rounded and in agreement on all other UKIP policies, pro halal excepted!

    I do think that the merest utterances on the subject of Islam will trigger opprobrium from the well meaning and unversed to the malevolently and mischievously directed no matter how reasonable and sound the party/leader is on other things. In which case when and how do you suggest it ever be raised?

    We do not have decades in which to reverse the long march through the institutions.

    • Eliza, that is the trouble. Do we trust anyone but Anne Marie to competently ‘raise the issue’ of Islamification, knowing that there will be fireworks if they do? As you say, we do not have decades – and Anne Marie is the only candidate to prove herself willing, and able.

  8. No one has ‘manufactured’ a new reason for UKIP to exist. The islamic problem was there all along for years and a great source of concern on the old UKIP Members’ Forum. It was merely sidelined temporarily for the sake of focusing on Brexit during the run-up to the campaign, and the campaign itself.

    Now is the time to face up to it, especially as the spineless Cameron government did nothing to reverse Blair’s treacherous decision to allow sharia councils and courts. In fact, sharia May as Home Secretary went further and assisted these kangaroo courts’ financial arrangements. (No peace be upon her.) Taxpayers’ money is used to fund islamic institutions’ promotion and propaganda. Their dream is to capture the UK for allah and attain a high position in the fools’ paradise. Islamisation is one way, breeding your own army is another.
    Women were not consulted about sharia law; it was the bully boy patriarchs, elders and imams who went whining to the government for more power to oppress their wives and daughters. Blair & May knew that the FGM laws were being broken every day, amounting to thousands of brutal mutilations, yet they were too stupid or too cruel even to demand the end of that abomination in return for sharia law being given the green light. Watch out this autumn for the results of an establishment favourite muslim woman’s enquiry into the effect on women of being forced to live by misogynist sharia law instead of our British law under which everyone is equal. If it’s not a muslim/May whitewash cover-up, I’ll be a monkey’s uncle.
    We DO NOT have freedom of speech under the current 1984 hate laws covering race and religion; muslims DO NOT have freedom of worship anywhere in the world because apostasy means death. In islamic countries murdering an apostate is justified as endorsed by the koran and sharia; in the UK it is a threat waiting to be carried out by any psycho who thinks he, his uncle and his brother can get away with it.
    ‘Integration’? There will be NO integration while multiculturalism, islamic ghettoes and sharia exist here, which is why it all needs stamping out. Which is why we need Anne Marie Waters to lead UKIP into doing what the other cowardly parties will never do, because they prefer to kick the can up the road for others to deal with. They’ll have to be browbeaten and shamed into action.
    For goodness’ sake, if people at the start of WW2 had preferred to ignore the existential threat to our country in the way that current human ostriches prefer to ignore the longer term (but not that much longer) threat from islamofascists, we wouldn’t be worrying about the EU because we’d all be speaking German anyway.

  9. Everyone has their own ideas of what is important for UKIP. All are extremely valid and worthy of consideration.
    But for me, like Mary, the defining issue is the increasingly rapid takeover of our culture – encouraged by May in her quite lengthy, sincerely delivered broadcast on social media, sending her “warmest wishes to Muslims around the World and here in the U.K. who are celebrating Eid Al Adha”. She congratulates those who have performed the Hajj, and later on observes that Muslims “help to enrich the successful multi-racial multi-faith democracy that is 21st Century Britain…….later….their warm spirit of neighborliness and compassion demonstrate the common values we all share” – “indeed, British Muslims and people of Muslim origin make a huge contribution to all walks of life in the United Kingdom”. – really, Mrs. May? It seems to me that we are giving up our values and replacing them with Halal and grooming gangs – but I’m such a cynic. And what’s all this ‘Muslim origin’ stuff? Muslims are not a race! This shows how little she actually knows. Our Prime Mimister!

    Anne Marie has lost a little of her forthright fire in recent interviews, but I think she knows that there are people just longing for her to say something they can use to ‘de-select’ her again – apparently it could still happen.. It must be really hard to be in her shoes right now.

    Theresa May has just re-convinced me, that Anne Marie is our only hope – not that I was really wavering! I hope some others agree with us, Mary.

    • She really said that, “people of Muslim origin”? 😀

      Someone screwed up the programming of the Maybot for that one!

      • She really said it!

      • Stuart,

        I watched that video yesterday and found it unbelievably cringingly embarrassing and excruciating to watch, in fact, it made me want to vomit. What on earth is wrong with Theresa May she looked desperate to appease and supp up to this minority religion, either she is being paid to do it or she is s**t scared of them, in truth it is probably both.

        I don’t recall her doing this for any other minority religion in this country such as the Jews or the Hindus, what makes Islam so special except that they mostly seem to want to kill the rest of us. Theresa May is pathetic and a useless Prime Minister the sooner she goes the better, then she can convert to Islam if she wishes as she seems to enjoy wearing headscarves and cowtowing to their Imams.

  10. Jim, I joined/donated-to multiple pro-Brexit groups last year including LabourLeave, and almost all have kept me on their mailing lists which have often been a source of useful information.

  11. Mary, I’m not in any sort of coalition, nor are most fellow ordinary members who share my position. AMW has some points but mainly, for her, it’s about Islam. if she’s elected I am utterly convinced it will be the end of any chance we have of recovery.

  12. Jim Makin is right on the button. Good letter. Do watch that video too.

    • Mr Bav, After reading your earlier contribution, I listened to Anne Marie’s interview on LBC. I am not a supporter of her bid to lead UKIP but that doesn’t mean I have no regard for her or for the fight she is waging, I most definitely do and, in that respect I was disappointed for her that it did not go well. However, it served to reinforce my belief that Anne Marie would not be capable of reforming and leading a political party, even one as small as UKIP is at present.

      • To be fair to Anne Marie it was on early at about 7:45 am and I’m sure she’s rushed off her feet and pretty tired right now. All the same there’s really only a limited number of questions she can be asked so I have no doubt she’ll have more polished responses to each and every one of those in the future should she win.

        • And also, Sean, she was the one being interviewed, not Peter Whittle or David Kurten. If Anne Marie is elected, UKIP will be relevant. She won’t be afraid to talk about immigration and Sharia.

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