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Letters to the Editor – Monday 18th September 2017

The two lengthy letters which we publish today both refer to the terrorist attack at Parsons Green. The first is by our contributor Hugo Jenks:


There are many who have not understood the threat that we face from Islam itself. Islam is a political ideology as well as a religion. It seeks to take political power, including financial, military and legal aspects. There is no concept of separation of church and state as there is with Christianity.

On Saturday I returned from Verona, not using the London Underground due to engineering works. At the overground railway stations there were armed police, and frequent security awareness announcements.  London is the prime target for terrorists.  See my articles here  and  here

We are currently in a sacred month. A true Muslim would wait until the sacred months are over before launching an attack. It now looks as though the recent attack at Parsons Green was time constrained, and had to be done immediately.  The “refugee child” attacker had been arrested two weeks earlier, and presumably felt the need to act as soon as possible (e.g. see this report)

 “Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. …” – Koran 9:5

Terrible as the terrorist attacks are, the real threat is demographic.

Now is not the time for wishful thinking. There are some 35,000 undesirables with Jihadist sympathies known to the security services. Islam is at war with the west, whether we like it or not. Deportation of as many of these 35,000 as possible has to proceed, and if they cannot be deported then they must be interned. We have no other realistic choice.

De-radicalisation may assist in a handful of cases, however since it is effectively asking them to be apostates, it is just not going to work with the bulk of this number. The Prevent Strategy has clearly failed. The idea of there being some sort of “Moderate Islam” has clearly failed, and in any case has zero theological leverage with those who follow the actual instructions in the Koran. Pandering to Islam by allowing Sharia Councils, Halal cruelty, and Sharia Finance has clearly failed, and in the process has severely weakened our own democratic and moral principles.

If western civilisation is to survive through this century, it can only do so by fully recognising the threat, and being active to root it out. There are some apparent paradoxes to be worked through. Internment was used during WW2, and if our politicians would only recognise that we really are at war with Islam, then there should be no moral or financial barrier to its use now. It probably would be more cost effective anyway than trying to keep tabs on all those who pose immediate threats to us.

Respectfully, Hugo Jenks

The second letter comes from our correspondent Felicia Catto:


So we had another terrorist attack in London. This time, the police did not try to keep us calm by talking about ‘an incident’ – nothing to see here. Must’ve been because so many twitter photos had already been seen by so many people, as had the ambulances at Parsons Green. The terrorist has been arrested – apparently quite by chance, according to the reports in the papers. What is worse is that the police actually had arrested him a couple of weeks earlier – and then let him go (see here). Of course we’re not told why he was arrested in the first place, nor why he was let go. I bet it wasn’t because he tweeted ‘hate speech’! So we have the same picture which we know from France: the authorities ‘know’ the potential perps, even have them in their clutches, but let them go because …  yes, why?

So I want to ask this: I’ve been reading the articles and comments on here (and elsewhere) about the UKIP leadership elections and the candidates. The arguments seem to boil down to this: elect AMW and all will be well, we’ll finally be able to tackle islam in our country and if hidebound old members leave: no problem! There are masses of eager your people just waiting to join!

Other members say that they would leave – and these are, as far as I can make out, Kippers who’ve been elected to local councils and MEPs (although these have become very quiet in recent weeks …).

It is rather obvious to me that to tackle islam we must apply our existing British Laws or create new, specific ones, right?

I assume that Kippers who’ve voted for AMW already, and those eager to join, understand that in order to implement such changes one needs to be represented on local councils and, even better, get MPs elected.

Now my questions: how is this going to be achieved if we haven’t and won’t have elected representatives on local councils, or Police Commissioners, or MPs? Saying that UKIP will suddenly have 100,000 new members (this number has been bandied about!) is fine but to me it sounds like a pipe dream. Even if 10,000 join: how are these new members going to do it when elected Kippers have left, and take with them the know-how and resources to actually get elected? Have we forgotten how long it took, and how much hard work, to get members elected to local councils? Do we suddenly have time to spend the next 20 years in the wilderness? I thought islam was an imminent threat!

I am truly sorry, but it looks to me as if we’ll take our eyes off the ball if we spend all our limited resources only on fighting islam, to the detriment of fighting the other imminent threats: losing Brexit, EAW, ‘hate speech’ – all hugely necessary if we want to get rid of islam in our country. I can’t help but think of the fable of the dog swimming across a river, a string of sausages in his mouth – and losing the real sausages because he tried to snaffle up the sausages mirrored in the water as well.

I apologise for going on at such length.

Respectfully, Felicia Catto

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70 Comments on Letters to the Editor – Monday 18th September 2017

  1. Regarding Felicia Catto’s letter on “how is this going to be achieved if we haven’t and won’t have elected representatives .. “, the point is that UKIP has shown that is is possible to bring about change without having elected representatives.

    For after all during the referendum campaign, we had just on disloyal MP! The point is that change can be achieved by posing an electoral threat, even if this does not lead to winning seats.

    Realistically under our first past the post system and tribalism, UKIP cannot send MP’s to Westminster in large numbers. We would however under Anne Marie Waters leadership attract a great deal of publicity and a large numbers of younger voters.

    With the Tories having stolen UKIP’s former policies on Brexit, Immigration and Grammar schools, together with the more powerful status of their Eurosceptic wing, attempting to recast UKIP as a Conservative Party MKII, will simply lead to its rapid demise.

  2. kenneth james ogilvie // September 19, 2017 at 1:39 am // Reply

    18 and 21 years old, they are not children they are fully grown men. What were they doing in a foster home for children?

    • Those are the secret rules to social services approved by Bliar and then extended by Camoron paid for by us the tax payer. Asylum seekers who are ” lone children” receive fostering care and help until they are 24 years old. This includes free dentistry, free education courses; free medical care/prescriptions irrespective of finances; free acco plus pocket money AND help in finding work. The batty dogooder couple who ‘looked after’ bucketbomber received £400 per week for EACH of the two ‘asylum children’ in their care. A 25 year old claiming to be 17yrs old will therefore be entitled to massive state aid until he reaches 32 yrs real age. OBSCENE does not do justice to this state sanctioned criminality. No dna/medical tests are carried out to ascertain their real age. Thankyou LordDubs.
      The foster couple were active members of groups encouraging illegalmigration /invasion inc the nutters who go over to Calais with freebies for the gangs operating there.
      Social services have broken the law as the fostercouple are older than necessary to look after children according to localauthority rules.
      the cover up around the attempted masssmurder of 40-100 British citizens (INC CHILDREN) is in full swing.

  3. Felicia – I’m a great AMW fan and after watching some of her youtube videos, I feel she’s perfectly intelligent enough to deal with the wide variety of issues that a leader would need to.

    However, the Islam problem is huge, I’m not sure that AMW needs the distraction of being leader, she has her work cut out for her. If she becomes leader fine, but it’s more important for her to have a senior role in UKIP and the freedom to fight her and our cause.

    • Hi flyer –

      you say exactly what I tried to say: as leader of UKIP AMW will be necessity not have the time to do what she does so well: talk to the people. Either her mission or the Party will suffer.
      I do not understand why things have become so polarised that members now seem to think it’s either-or. Why not both together?

  4. Felicia: “I am truly sorry, but it looks to me as if we’ll take our eyes off the ball if we spend all our limited resources only on fighting islam, to the detriment of fighting the other imminent threats: losing Brexit, EAW, ‘hate speech’”.

    Some time between 2040 and 2060, Muslims will become a majority in the UK:

    The point of no return will come much sooner than that, in about 2025 when white British babies become a minority among all babies being born.

    Your argument is a bit like Germans debating in late 1944 whether they should expand the Autobahn network. Soon it wouldn’t be their network any more, but the Allies’ network. Debating Brexit, the EAW, HS2 or whatever is pointless when within a couple of decades this will no longer be our country to make decisions for.

    • This is a very powerful point that appears to be understood (or at least faced) by only one of our leadership candidates.

      It’s a shame that this comment appeared so late in the day that most readers of UKIPD will probably have missed it.

      It deserves to be repeated today, perhaps in the comments on the piece by Henry Bolton.

      “Great news, Sir, I have an 18-point plan!”

      “What will it achieve, Baldrick?”

    • Why do you think I know nothing about this problem? Why do you think I haven’t read anything at all and am in need to be ‘educated’?
      It’s a bit annoying to see all those comment posts from people who seem to think that they alone know things and opponents need only to be told ‘the truth’.
      You know what that reminds me of? Of being given ‘dawa’ …

      • Apologies if you got the impression that I think you don’t know anything about Islam, Felicia.

        Nevertheless you haven’t answered my point: debating UKIP policy on the EAW, HS2 or whatever is all quite pointless when on current demographic trends this won’t be our country by the middle of this century, isn’t it?

      • Felicia,

        If you feel you are being fed “dawa” then I can only suppose that those feeding you are at a loss to understand your logic in drawing your conclusions from an already-informed standpoint.

        I’m not trying to criticise you, or your views, by stating this. I’m only offering a possible explanation for what is annoying you, so that you are perhaps less annoyed by others trying to bring clarity to the argument.

  5. The thing that so many people here are still missing is that the actions of the prevailing politicians are deliberate. And have been for decades.

    I know that sounds ridiculous but the horror story is, that’s the truth.

    AMW does truth. End of…

    I’ve had help joining the dots by reading people like Vernon Coleman, and many more on this site and elsewhere. We are and have been led by traitors through the age of the forth Reich. Do you really think that representation on local councils is going to make the slightest difference?

    Islam is very extreme and will continue unchecked until the establishment is prepared to call it out for what it is.

    They’re not.

    Why not?

    It’s Not left. Not right. It’s Existential. And deliberate…. let your imagine think on that for a while.

    • Alan, I fear that you are correct that it is deliberate.

      I know from a reliable source that David Cameron was told exactly what Islam is about, by someone who has a thorough knowledge of it. This information was clearly disregarded, and it seems to me deliberately so.

  6. What I find annoying, I’m afraid, is that all this MEP, Councillors threatening to leave sounds so very childish, Felicity. Would not the grown-up thing to do be to give it time and see, whoever is elected Leader, how things work out and what the Leader does? That’s what I shall do, obviously I shall be disappointed if AMW doesn’t win – but maybe the new Leader will address my concerns, and the concerns of others about the Islamification of Britain in a capable and effective way.
    If they don’t, I will leave UKIP because one cannot belong to two Political Parties at once and I will need to join one that does. But I shall just leave, as I imagine others may – or stay, as ditto.

    I think the behavior of those who threaten to leave is a cross between childish and blackmail – they seem to forget they got their positions because they represent the whole of UKIP membership who paid their subscriptions, not just bits of it.

  7. How many UKIP MPs did we have in Parliament on 23/6/16? None. I don’t count Carswell as a UKIP MP.
    How many MPs, MEPs, councillors did we have in January 2013 when Cameron announced there would be a Referendum on the EU? None/ One or Two/ Not many.
    When there is an issue that the electorate feels concerned about and the government keeps refusing to address that issue, it is POLITICAL PRESSURE that changes the mindset of the government, especially if it fears there is a danger of losing power. There is a sufficient number of people in the country who feel very concerned about islam and all its ramifications. With the right leader of UKIP these concerns can be openly discussed, as Brexit and immigration finally were after years of being ignored or suppressed as topics. People can start to vocalise their demands for control, one law for all, the abolition of sharia, FGM, halal. Once this happens, the ‘hate speech’ laws will be meaningless. I believe there are Tory MPs who would be emboldened to speak out if they saw well-attended public meetings where voters could express their dissatisfaction.
    Remember how attitudes can change when there is a tipping point of protest and vocalisation that comes from a party that speaks for those without a voice. The disenfranchised hear that voice and add theirs.

    • Totally agree. Very well put, Panmelia, as always.

    • kenneth james ogilvie // September 19, 2017 at 2:48 am // Reply

      Why did we have Nuttel and the NEC to persuade us to vote for candidates other than our own in the last election. We hardly stood any candidates and we lost heavily. Those voters are going to be hard to get back if we vote in a wishy washy leader. Another problem is that Nigel, with the backing of Banks is suggesting a new party that could take many voters, UKIP is in the members hands think very carefully who you elect. I’m waiting to see the outcome of the leadership election before I join again

  8. I am confused by the letter from Felicia Catto.

    It seems to suggest that we need to deal with Islam and the way to do that is to NOT vote for the candidate who wants to deal with Islam.

    Have I misunderstood?

    • I mustn’t be offensive, so I won’t post my first answer which had the words ‘obtuse’ and ‘wilfully’ in it.
      I’ll just say that you might wish to read my letter again.

      • I also do not mean to be rude, but I imagine sticking our fingers in our ears and closing our eye shut while Rome burns Is not they to go. I do not want UK to carry on regardless. We are where we are and have taken quite a step backwards in terms of ratings. I do not applologise for being AMW supporter, but same old has not worked. We need change and we vision, which include taking Brexit as well as other new policies

      • Maybe I am too obtuse for this. Do you wish to take a moment to explain how I have misunderstood?

        (I have read it again, and I read it several times before commenting the first time.)

        • It seems to me that you have overlooked this “?” – I am asking questions. for example: we do agree, yes or no, that islam is an imminent threat.
          If that is the case – what are we going to do about it? Elect AMW: yes or no. If yes: what is she going to do about it? In the immediate future, in the long-term future. Well?
          Is winning seats to influence and shape politics not important any longer? Yes or no.
          If yes: how are you/is she going to do it?
          Is ‘get more members’ a valid political answer when a candidate stands on the doorstep and has to explain why granny cannot find a place in a care home? Do we assume that all new members know full well how to campaign, that they don’t need to learn from the expertise of the older members, members which many here and on social media denigrate?
          I do hope I’ve made myself a bit clearer – forgive me if my comment post wasn’t up to standard – I haven’t commented on here before.

          • Many members have argued against AMW because they believe that she will lead to loss of members, loss of elected representatives and make canvassing dangerous.

            I thought you were warning the same.

            Was your letter actually assuming that she may be elected, that those losses may occur and asking what we should do if that happens?

          • kenneth james ogilvie // September 19, 2017 at 2:59 am //

            Islam is a problem throughout the world, take a look. Pakistan and Bangladesh broke from India because they were Muslim but that wasn’t good enough they are now encroaching in India again. When I served in Singapore, Malaysia was not Muslim now it is, Indonesia is now Muslim and most of Africa. There are 20 million of them in China where i live, China keeps them in their own area but the are starting to break out. They are like bind weed or marigolds once they take hold they are almost impossible to get rid of. I won’t see the take over of Britain I’m to old and I don’t want my children or grand children to see it either

  9. Do people not remember UKIP votes were so reduced at the last election with the status quo being maintained. Unless we / UKIP dare to question that which all other parties refuse to do, and in fact condem all those that do question the problems we have in our country and over much of Europe. I was told as a youngster to question is the way to knowledge and enlightenment. This is a fundamental right that was fought for in our struggle for democracy. If we do not challenge the ability and right, to question and debate the uncomfortable truths because of political correctness, what else is there worth fighting for?

  10. AMW suporters simply have no imagination; scroll forward to AMW’s first interview on the BBC conducted by a Moslem wearing discreet Islamic dress, ably assisted by the man behind the curtain talking into her earpiece, berating AMW about her prejudice and pointing to the many Moslem doctors, teachers, police officers etc etc etc who are ‘fully integrated’ in our society.

    AMW represents a cul-de-sac for UKIP from which it is unlikely to emerge: there are many parts of the country including where I live where we would simply not be able to campaign if that ex-Labour woman is elected. I sincerely hope we don’t get that Collins woman either after her blaming of YI for the cancellation of their conference. I hope we get someone who can steer a brave and true course to electoral success in opposition to the Tories.

    • So I imagine that Anne Marie would point out that as fully integrated participating members of the U.K. they will join and applaud her efforts to ensure that Sharia Law isn’t fully imposed in Britain, forthurst, and those Sharia courts that do operate shouldn’t be allowed.

      She might also point out that where Sharia Law is functioning many women who might want to work are prevented from doing so, since they cannot go outside without being accompanied by their husbands, and have to show their virtue by wearing a burka, and so be unable to participate fully with British Society, where it is customary to show ones face.

      She might finish by observing that it is not the religious side of Islam that she, Anne Marie is opposing, but the Political side of Islam whereby Sharia Law is stated to be above all other man-made Laws, and that such a Political system like Islam has no place in British Society.

      I think Anne Marie would do just fine.

      • Sharia courts are not the only religious courts which operate in this country; are you aware of that? If members of an alien sect mutually decide to settle matters according to their own alien customs, who are you to prevent them? What evidence does AMW have that some Moslem women don’t want to wear the burka and would rather go out to work than collect benefits?

        To categorise that our problem, the reason I joined UKIP, can be solved by attenuating the temporary behaviour of Moslems then one of us is in the wrong party because our problems go far far deeper. JRE gets it; AMW actually could easily be a plant by our enemies for the damage that she could do us who want our country back.

        • AMW could easily be a plant from our enemies” – which enemies, forthurst? Anne Marie is extremely open and candid in interviews as to why she left Labour, what she thinks,their aims are and why they support open borders, Islam and multiculturalism, she also despises their anti-semitism. Or are there other enemies you have in mind?
          I just question your assertion, you are entitled to your opinion, but stating what you did is, imo, like saying to me that I could easily be related to Citizenkains aunt from Venezuela – and I could, but I’m not!

    • Bernard from Bucks. // September 18, 2017 at 6:49 pm // Reply

      “… we would simply not be able to campaign if that ex-Labour woman is elected. …”
      Two words spring to mind ‘Nail’ and ‘Head’.
      There is also the saying taught to me in the 50’s –
      ‘As ye sow, so shall ye reap’.
      I can sense disaster for what was once not only a wonderful party with a wonderful ambition, but also a wonderful group of friends. Sad.

      • @Bernard No one would be stopping ex-Kippers from remaining friends should AMW win. I am new to this forum but it is exactly this sentiment I have picked up from a few posters. They seem to be more worried about their social lives and investments than the impending destruction of our country should Islam really get a hold of it.

    • I think people will start listening once we stop talking about Islam as some abstract object but rather talk about some details of the life of Muhammad. Voters only need to know 2 or 3 details about Muhammad to decide Islam is bad news. Firstly the fact that according to Islamic tradition Muhammad had sex with a prepubescent little girl. Secondly he owned, traded and enslaved many men, women and children and used some of those women as sex slaves. Thirdly Muhammad’s view of black people; it’s reported he referred to Ethiopians as raisin heads and that if you wanted to know what the devil looked like then you should take a look at his black slave. You don’t need to keep your hand in the fire too long before you know it burns. You don’t need to have an extensive knowledge of Muhammad and Islam to know they’re bad news. Just a few of these tidbits is all that the voting public need to be aware of.

      • Exactly, Sean – people need a Leader, as at the moment they are both afraid and confused. Our Leaders tell us to keep calm and carry on, that Islam is a religion of peace when they can see with their own eyes that it obviously isn’t. But they are afraid to say so, because they are called bigots, nazi and xenophobic. These labels are used by the Communist Marxists who have allied with Islam as their best hope for overthrowing the Capitalist system – and the young Antifa have been taught via our education system that Islam is good, Mohammed was a good man who was persecuted.
        Once someone shows that they aren’t afraid to refute the ridiculous claims made such as Sharia Law is good for Britain, they will take heart. Added to which Anne Marie has a good manifesto for Granny too, and intends to make that message heard.

  11. There’s a missing stone at the bottom of the wall: what is the British or Western culture we’re supposed to be defending? What’s it built upon? Culture refers to a cult, something sacred. Without a fixed base, implying a religious one, there can be no unity.

    The main 2 candidates are atheists. JRE, a Christian, wants to take direction from a secular electorate. Can any of them be the lens which focuses a clear core purpose for society. It’s one thing to know what you’re against, another to know what you’re for. And I don’t think another party offering competence or wealth will grab anyone’s attention.

    From where is a religious revival to come? What form would it take? The movies today are full of mythological heroes: maybe there are elements of a revival there. Against which, the new religions of Equity and Anti-Racism are already waxed strong.

    I do like the Common Law as a culture. It’s something we can resurrect as Brexit is achieved. It has a deep, organic history, growing out of the life circumstances of individual Britons. Through jury trials it has been a self creation of Britons. So I think “one law for all” has spiritual resonance, and is a useful theme to talk about.

    • Agreed, Chris, and I think it is also enormously important to update the British Constitution, which AMW has suggested would be put to the people in a referendum when worked out. We need our rights properly enshrined in Law, which is the only thing that might save America. The only impediment to free speech there is Antifa – and they are showing themselves up for what they are and losing support.

    • Chris, you make excellent points.

      Unfortunately Christianity has not been able to halt the spread of Islam. Particularly at our present time it appears to be in no fit state to do so. The Anglican Church is in full appeasement mode – witness the chanting from the Koran in Glasgow and Gloucester cathedrals.

      There are some principled clerics, such as Rev Gavin Ashenden and Bishop Michael Nazir-Ali, however there appear to be all to many bats in the belfry. We cannot rely on Christianity to save us from Islam.

      • Reply to Hugo’s comment of September 18, 8:39 pm

        You probably didn’t intend it, but your assertion is out of context and misleading.

        When you say:
        — ”.. Unfortunately Christianity has not been able to halt the spread of Islam…”

        Isn’t this what is actually truthful:
        — Unfortunately Christianity was not allowed to do anything to halt the spread of islam, because atheists, cultural marxists and other similar minded people united together with the singular objective to weaken, undermine and ultimately destroy Christianity in this country.

        The above is an accurate observation and gives proper context to your original assertion.

        The truth is that atheists and cultural marxists infiltrated the church and now we have dhimmi church of England leaders who have been been steadily replacing Biblical truth with marxist deception.

        And in wider society, Christians have been mocked, abused, persecuted, and hounded for years, merely for stating objective truths about society, marriage and the family.

        Any Christians attempting to speak out about islam are given that utterly bogus label of “islamophobic”. And it is much worse for a Christian to be labelled “islamophobic” than an atheist.

        Because when a Christian challenges islam they are portrayed as having selfish reasons for doing so, – they want Christianity to be the dominant faith in this country, it is inferred. Well how dare Christians claim their religion is better than another religion! How dare they proclaim the truth of Christianity over the “truth” of islam!

        So the abuse, hounding and persecution Christians are subjected to when they speak out against islam is 10 times worse than when an atheist does it. That is completely deliberate on the part of cultural marxists of course.

        Christianity is tolerated in this country as long as it shuts up and does what it’s told.

        There are still huge numbers of principled Christians in this country who live their life according to Biblical truth and are doing everything they can to protect their families and friends from the evils of cultural marxism.

        These principled Christians would stand up and fight against the proliferation of islam, along with its root cause – cultural marxism, no matter the personal cost to them, but I’d suggest it would require a principled Christian political leader to motivate them to do so.

        Also, this is truthful:
        — We don’t want it to be Christianity which halts the spread of islam.

  12. Regarding terrorist attacks, has anyone else realised that Western prisons, with comfortable beds, 3 square meals a day, entertainments and exercise opportunities present very little as a deterrent to reoffending when crimes are committed by recent immigrants from countries where the inability to obtain alcohol or associate with women represents normality.

    The only way to deter reoffending by muslim criminals is, in my opinion, to legalise and impose Sharia punishments for muslim criminals.

    Muslim immigrants want Sharia law outside of prisons; their desire for halal meat trumps the protection against cruelty to animals; why then do we not punish them according to the laws they demand? To argue human rights would be to condemn all Islamic countries as human rights violators, event those currently and ironically in charge of the UN Human Rights commission.

    • kenneth james ogilvie // September 19, 2017 at 3:16 am // Reply

      You could be right but I can imagine them shouting human rights if we started to chop off a few hands or heads as per Sharia law

  13. AMW belongs with her compatriot “Tommy Robinson” and his crusade and will be a force for shedding some light on the subject. Unfortunately the street fighters do not have to stand for election as do those representing UKIP. We must be seen as a credible government in waiting not merely a knee jerking protest organisation. These methods have been well tested by BNP/EDL etc and they would do more harm to the cause of such as UKIP than help. The voters were with us on Brexit but will they buy in to the get Islam at all costs mentality of AMW and Tommy Robinson?

  14. To F. Catto,

    Your “hidebound older members” comment is nonsense and offensive.
    Let me know your source of information.

    • She was parodying or summarising the view of AMW supporters. Your erroneous interpretation is a bit hidebound.

      There have been many comments on UKIP Daily from AMW supporters dismissing anyone who dares question or remotely criticise AMW. F Catto does not need to cite a source for her pithy summary,

    • Forgive me that the expression which offended you was the one which IMHO expressed the impression I read in so many comments. If it offends you – I’m most awfully sorry to have hurt your feelings.

      • Thank you Felicia, and for your letter.

        I was about to make the same point about the insulting comments made regarding existing members by some of AMW’s supporters in previous discussions. What they say amounts to:’Take yourself off then. You’ve served your purpose and will soon be replaced by even more of AMW’s supporters.’

        I have even asked, why, if they are so numerous and confident of gathering many more members, they haven’t started their own Party. One replied as follows:

        ‘The chance to take over a fully formed political party is very rare. It is to be grabbed with two hands.’

        I assume what they really want is the name UKIP’ which is now well-known throughout the Anglosphere as a result of Nigel Farage and Brexit.

        I have received confirmation from three sources that AMW intends to walk away from UKIP if she loses the leadership election.

        • I doubt very much that Anne Marie will walk away. I can’t see her doing that. If I were to put my cynical hat on for a moment with any other leader UKIP will crash and burn at the next set of important elections. Then that leader would most likely resign prompting another leadership campaign. AMW would then win as all the new members she brought in recently who haven’t been allowed to vote would be allowed to vote.

        • Thank you, Marie!
          I’ve been reading comments here a lot, and since we’re apparently allowed to be offended, I can say that I’ve been offended time and again when anyone who isn’t 100% with AMW gets patronising advice like ‘it’ll be good, don’t be afraid’ and lectures about islam which many of us really don’t need – we do read books, yaknow! – to more or less veiled ‘advice’ that we should pack up and go: hundreds and thousands of fresh young members are just waiting to join to replace us …
          A debate this isn’t – and as far as they are concerned, all other candidates might as well not exist.
          What i’d like to know is: what are they going to do should AMW not win?

          • Hi Felicia

            I always think of Marie as the ‘voice of reason’. She writes some wonderful and well balanced comments. Well worth looking at.

            If you are happy to do a search on here ‘Marie’s Letter’, which appeared as an article not long ago, is a delight to read.


        • Marie,
          I think the problem with AMW supporters coming across as almost blindly supportive of her candidacy, is that so many of her critics (who have a perfect right to criticise of course) refuse to believe she can have anything other than a personal motive for what she is doing.

          Those of us who know her know that nothing could be further from the truth. We believe that the problem of islam in this country is too big to be ignored and that UKIP is the only hope for the future of our country, and that Anne Marie is the best hope for UKIP because, in the opinion of many of her supporters, none of the other candidates for leadership seem capable of lighting a fire under the issue for the public generally, and that is what must happen.

          There is indeed a battle for the soul of UKIP and no one wing of the membership can claim ownership of future policy, we must let the members decide and hope that we win the case.

          Because islam is such a polarising issue, people seem to be going at each other now, which is a terrible shame because almost everyone I have read on UKUPD and elsewhere is just as loyal to the party and the country as most of the membership, but we are faced with some big decisions to make now.

  15. There are real splits in the Conservative party. But I didn’t hear conservative councillors threatening to resign over who might be leader when they last had a leadership contest.

    So how is it UKIP councillors and MEPs threaten to leave if the party’s democratic process produces a leader that they themselves may not have voted for? It looks to me as if we have the most narcissistic, self-important elected officials of any party. They are not here to serve us the members. It’s the other way round and if we do not vote as they wish they are off?

    • A number of Conservative MP’s threatened to quit if Andrea Leadsom didn’t pull out of their leadership race.

      My cut and paste facility isn’t playing ball at the moment so will have to put the following in manually. Leadsom backlash continues…

      • I dare say some Tory MPs were as pompously self important as some of our MEPs, and elitist enough to interfere in members’ choices, but I still do not recall Tory councillors threatening to quit.

    • You can’t be unaware that very many members will leave in the event of an AMW victory: I assume by your judgement they are all narcissists too.

    • Re Cons resigning. I was one of two councillors representing my division at county. My first opposite number, a helpful and hard-working woman, resigned on principle because of the reduction in child care. One of the ablest members of the Con cabinet walked off because he could no longer put up with the cuts to health coverage. The cabinet member for education resigned over education policy.

      Why will I not accept the majority vote if it goes against us? This particular vote is make or break, and if the vote goes to someone who can be easily maligned as racist then the game is over anyway, UKIP will be finished. Not to threaten to resign at this juncture would be a dereliction of duty.

      We have worked hard to lose that label. I know you will say that the label is not deserved, that lies will be used to attack us. That’s what the media do. They lie to advance the agendas of their paymasters, and the only way we can survive as a viable political influence is to present them with a minimised target.

      Re servants. When I was councillor for Haverhill Cangle I was the servant of my residents, not of the party. As a simple UKIP member I will speak for those who voted for us, who spoke to us and encouraged us in the streets and on the doorsteps, I will speak to and for those who have not yet articulated their need for change. I will represent them to the best of my ability even though I no longer have influence or a voice. The UK need a decent, hard-working and patriotic party to vote for, and UKIP can be that party.

      If UKIP wishes to commit suicide by embracing a candidate who will never be acceptable to the majority of the electorate, and who has advanced policies which will be used by the media to tar UKIP with the racist brush, then the only protest left to me will be resignation. And that is what I will do.


      • Since when was UKIP ever acceptable to the majority of the electorate? We peaked at 12.6% in the 2015 GE. We are now at 1.8% something we achieved under that nice Mr Nuttall. We have been called racist for years.

        • Speak for yourself. We peaked at almost 22% in 2015, fell to just under 5% in 2017* even though we were not one of the target seats. Why did we do so well compared with the UKIP average? Because we had the right message, people were beginning to notice that we were not the hairy-palmed racists that the Beeb and others were trying to portray us as.

          Acceptable, yes, in the sense as seen as just another political party, one more unremarkable space to cross on the ballot paper. Not voted for in large enough numbers though, that’s not the same thing, but we were making slow progress even against the background of the shambles at the top. But people will not vote for or accept a Party which can be easily portrayed as racist. A party led by Miss Waters can be and will be.

          What’s missing there are the words ‘not yet’. We have not yet lost the battle, not yet reached the tipping point when people say ‘blow this,
          I don’t care about racism, I’m voting for them anyway’. If UKIP, or the decent, non-racist and sensible Party that may have to replace it falls then we will have lost, England will have lost, and I can see the marches, the chants, the riots in the streets, the burning shops, the windows shattered and daubed with graffiti.

          That’s my judgement, based on a few years working hard in the front line, speaking to sensible people who even now worry about the slurs we get. On the doorsteps, Miss Waters will not wash.

          *It was most gratifying to us when the Party hierarchy descended on West Suffolk to find out why we were performing so well…. oh, no, hang on, I’ve got that wrong, no-one did.

      • kenneth james ogilvie // September 19, 2017 at 3:24 am // Reply

        You can only be racist to a country not to a cult passing itself off as a religion

    • Stout, thank you! I so agree! With every word!

  16. Anne Marie Waters is possibly not the best leader for UKIP, I don’t know enough about politics to decide.
    The priority for me, is that she will be very good at making people aware of the dangers and imminent threat of Islamic takeover of our country.

    • Absolutely. As long as UKIP dodges the issue, they are playing into the hands of the cultural Marxists who want to destroy the nation state by mass immigration. It’s no coincidence that the preferred mass immigrants are not hindus or sikhs, who tend to integrate well and feel they are British, but are instead muslims, who believe in a globalist religion dedicated to a one world government.

      • And don’t forget, Brian, that Europe and the U.K. have set their faces against the many Christian and Yazhidi refugees who would be welcome here. The reason is that Christianity needs to be destroyed, in order for Islam and Sharia ‘values’ to replace what is a moral void.

        It is shocking that our Archbishop and other Church hierarchy have completely ignored what is Christian genocide, going on now in the Middle East and India/Pakistan as well as Turkey. The MSM have been complicit in this, lefties have been silent because of the Red/Green Alliance – all still refer to ‘Syrian’ refugees, when they are no such thing, and Syria is rapidly getting back to its secular self.

    • Jmac,

      We don’t just need people to be awake to the problem, we need to be able to lead them to a solution. If the fathers and mothers of thousands of girls and young women abused in cities all over our country cannot bring themselves to vote for UKIP then what’s the point? They need to understand the danger _and_ vote to avoid it. A party that can be labelled racist will not get votes, at least not enough to make a difference even from those who know what is going on.

      Does it make sense, to see a problem and then not vote for a party which claims it has a solution? Obviously not, but that is what happens.

      It’s called politics: persuasion, leadership, argument. Just banging on about Islam (or just houses, or schools, or the EU, or the health service, or roads or defence, or a wakened Russia…) will not cut the mustard.



  17. Two powerful letters, once again illustrating the importance of this website.

    To take up the concern expressed in the second letter with regard to the potential loss of electoral experience and expertise in the event of an AMW victory, I’d like to suggest that UKIP will become electable when ordinary people see that it offers something worth voting for. Being the only party with the courage to voice opinions such as those expressed in the first letter makes us the obvious choice for thousands of people fed up with wet-lettuce government and impotent policing.

    It’s easy to get elected when people want to vote for you!

    • Voicing opinions which people agree with is one thing. Even ‘being liked’ is one thing. winning elections is a different kettle of fish. Take policing: saying it’s impotent is no problem, people will like it. But what are you going to do about it? What are your actual proposals? You’ve got to sell that on the doorstep.
      Ask around or read about the various reports on how we lost in by-elections …And I do hope you’re not forgetting the opposition parties and MSM. Just saying ‘they are only smearing us’ is not a vote-winner.

      • Felicia raising issues and debating them comes before winning elections does it not. If we don’t start debating Islam, which AMW is prepared to do at most likely great personal cost, then when should we start that debate? As Hugo has pointed out the terrorism is just another outwardly expression of Islamization. The real issue is the demographic one. We need less Islam and if that means a less influential, smaller Muslim population then so be it.

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