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How to Help Anne Marie

The response to Anne Marie Waters’ article “UKIP must face Islam or die” has been impressive. Just as there was pent up demand for a party to speak out over immigration so there is a similar pent up demand over Sharia. Only UKIP can say what everyone is in fact thinking but no other party acknowledges, and it is clear that Anne Marie is the person we want to do that for us.

An anti-Sharia unit inside UKIP would be like a room to shout in outside of which no-one can hear. It would allow the party hierarchy to contain Anne Marie. And they will want to contain her. Recall that Anne Marie’s candidacy in the London Assembly and Mayoral elections was ended because of her (entirely reasonable) support for Pegida UK and because Anne Marie placed fidelity to the cause of opposing Sharia over personal ambition in the party. That is, someone wanting to do something to oppose Sharia was not tolerated or allowed to be tested in election. Cronyism is still rife in UKIP and we must fight and clamour and demand that Anne Marie Waters is given a position. We need her to be nothing less than an official spokesperson (for Religious and Social Affairs, say).

By all means write to Head Office to urge that Anne Marie is given a position but recognise that will go the way of previous peasants’ revolts. Even if 1000 members resign the leadership will simply say 29,000 did not and carry on regardless. We need to mandate branch Chairmen to send the message that 1) not a penny more and 2) no ground troops in any election, unless and until Anne Marie Waters is given a position. A strike by branches will have more impact than individuals letting off steam. If your chair is a Sharia appeaser or a party apparatchik with personal ambition, then dump him or her. An astute leadership – far from obvious ours is after Stoke – would get ahead of this and avoid the coming humiliation that will be theirs if they do not, and appoint Anne Marie now. I do not know if Anne Marie is still a party member but that is easily remedied. I will happily pay her subscription.

Just as people came to UKIP as the only party speaking out against uncontrolled population growth through immigration, outpacing the country’s ability to match that growth with appropriate infrastructure, so a party determined to preserve our way of life, really stand up for it, will attract the many who are not spoken for by the other parties. Yes, diversity is good but only if it is diversity with commonality. Multiculturalism allowed immigrants not just to import their dysfunctional and backward cultures and pursue them here instead of in the stagnating and failing countries they left, but to actually grow and strengthen their viciously prejudiced and patriarchal cultures right under our noses on the taxpayers’ dime. We need to push back.

There will be the usual squeals of racism, xenophobia, and bigotry. But the specifics of anti-Sharia can be embedded in a broader policy of relegating religion out of public life. In Singapore, for example, you can have a mosque, a synagogue, a Hindu temple, and several denominations of Christian church in proximity to one another without any discernible problems at all. How is this possible? Each creed blasphemes the other after all.

It is achieved by a firm policy of 1) religion is a private matter that is not allowed to intrude into public life, and 2) a government that clamps down on any attempt to proselytise. That is, when it comes to 1) Singapore really means it. So, the complete opposite of the UK then. It is bizarre that the British who tamed Christianity through satire and ridicule now indulge “faith” and one faith in particular with savage consequences for the nations daughters.

The doctrine of cultural and moral relativism prevented any effective response to the threat from the Muslim Brotherhood and Salafism from Saudi Arabia which has turned Islam into a political movement. The problem of Sharia in our society needs to be met, therefore, with a full on political response because it is a political power grab under cover of the special privileges of “faith” to which our craven politicians pander.

In addition to Anne Marie’s points, we need to stop allowing Saudi Arabia to fund the building of mosques, to stop the immigration privileges of immans, and to stop state subsidy of faith schools and Muslim Councils of this and that. If people want to go to a mosque on a Friday, a Synagogue on a Saturday, or a church on a Sunday, then so be it. But it is a private matter. No special privileges. And no turning a blind eye either.

We owe it to the children of Rotherham and elsewhere to oppose tolerating Sharia, Islamic racism, homophobia and misogyny. After the Tunsian beach massacre the first act of the government was to close down 80 radical mosques. Oh that we had their robust, common sense approach. Never again must we see any acknowledgment or implied endorsement of Islam’s practices as in that now infamous Stoke leaflet.

Winston Churchill, speaking in the House of Commons in 1936, said: ‘the use of recrimination about the past is to enforce effective action at the present’. Quite. Our spokesperson should keep reminding every newspaper, radio and TV interviewer of the establishment’s shameful, limp wristed past on Sharia.

As happened over the EU and over immigration, the people’s view is ignored once again but this time on Islam. The people’s view is a UKIP issue if ever there was one. And Anne Marie Waters is the person to represent us on that. No-one else even comes close. Kippers had bucket loads of courage when campaigning in the face of brickbats and insults. They deserve leaders with a courage to match

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126 Comments on How to Help Anne Marie

  1. I have been an active UKipper for a number of years, campaigning and standing (unsuccessfully unfortunately) as a a candidate for local elections. Through a very good friend, I have been made aware of this blog and all honour to those involved.
    Reading some of the comments regarding so called non- stunning slaughter of animals, I realise that no difference has been made between Muslim Hallal method and the Jewish Kosher method of slaughter called Shechita.
    I would suggest that those who are interested in this subject go online to
    There is no ritual involved in Jewish slaughter which is marked by compassion and consideration for the animal to ensure a swift and painless dispatch of the animal.
    Shechita is persomed by a highly trained shochet, the procedure consists of a rapid and expert transverse and uninterrupted incision with an instrument of surgical sharpness which severs the major structures and vessels at the neck including the trachea, oesphagus, carotid artteries and jagular veins, causing an instant drop in blood pressure in the brain. There is an irreversible cessation of imm
    ediate consciousness and sensibility to pain. Therefore, this conforms to the Welfare of Animals (Slaughter or Killing Regulations 1995.
    Jewish law in the Bible requires animals to be treated with kindness , consideration and respect. The animal must be fed before oneself. Prohibited to sever a limb from a live animal and eat it (one of the 7 Noahides Laws).One is obligated to relieve an animal’s suffering, Different species must not be teamed together to work and in the Talmud, it is prohibited to cause pain or distress to an animal, therefore, the welfare of the animal is paramount. This cannot be true of the steel bolt shot into the brain, which does not always work first time or electric shocks.
    Incidentally, one might want to read of the human health risk by mechanical stunning.
    There is also a similar attitude towards fowl, i.e. no pain.
    Outof copnsideration to the welfare of animals, Jews are forbidden to hunt, be involved in hare hunting, Badger gassing, fox hunting, dog fights etc. We are unable to eat crustascians such as crab and lobster because they are boiled in water while still alive. this is why they go pink. So there are many items of welfare for animals.
    I believe that those who are against Kosher method of slaughter is due to ignorance and or prejudice. I stromngly urge those who have constructed letters of anger towards the Jewish method to at least read and understand exactly what is meant by humane method of Jewish slaughter.

    • Martin, please rest assured that I do not in any way hate you. Accusations of hatred are typically what we see on Labour List when someone is losing the argument (accusations of so called “Islamophobia” for example).
      I accept your point that Judaism tries to be as humane as possible. However my point is that the Kosher method is based on Leviticus texts which are around 2500 years old, rather than based on modern scientific knowledge.
      Yes I already looked into the Shechita (Kosher) method. According to the Farm Animal Welfare Council there can be up to two minutes of distress when pre-stunning is not used.
      Your argument appears to boil down to the Shechita knife being sharper than the Halal knife, and that stunning does not always work.
      Firstly, there are numerous videos on Youtube showing deep cuts to the throat and the animal clearly in distress for some time, whereas a captive bolt is instant unconsciousness. Clearly not using pre-stunning is inhumane.
      Secondly, yes sometimes mechanical devices fail, however that is no argument for not using them. Occasionally my car has broken down, however I continue to drive once the fault is corrected. It does not stop me driving, and neither should pre-stunning be stopped just because there is occasionally a fault.

      • Hugo, I fully answered your post and for some reason has not been printed. I checked that it was less than 500 words, which it was
        May I please suggest that you fully read the contents of Shechitauk. Your response shows that you may have read or glanced some of the contents but that is all.
        You might mean well and do not hate Jews, unlike someone on this site which I will answer directly..
        best regards

        • Hugo, I made a mistake, my post was over 500 words and was not printed.
          I have the full set of volumes of the Tanakh. The method of slaughter is based in Deuteronomy and not Leviticus. My Bible is in original Hebrew, English translation and meaning of words and sentences. My Christian friends ask me for help with various passages, which I am pleased to do.

          You might be confusing Hallal and Kashrut methods. It is impossible for the animal being slaughtered by Shechita for it to suffer stress, panic etc for upto 2 minuted. This might be true of Hallal but not Shechita. I do hope that my post above clears the confusion. If you cut yourself with a blunt instrumeny, you feel the paid, when it is very sharp, you don’t. TBy using the Jewish method, the animal falls asleep within seconds without pain or distress, before it’s death. Once dead, it is then hung upside down for the blood leave the carcass. We are prohibited from drinking or eatinmg blood based food. There is nothing inhumane regarding the Jewish slaughter of animals, quite the opposite.

          Please read the Testimonials from well placed people who actually understand the methods of slaughter. I do not accept the fact that a car might break down comparible with the bolt method not always woking, as we are discussing the suffering or not of animals.
          Muslims have stated that they are prepared to accept stunning by bolt method,. whereas, the Jewish perople do not accept it.
          I do not believe even from p[ersonal experience that the RSPCA alwatys acts in the interests and benefits of the animals.they are very good ast raising money though
          I can only stress again to read the whole of Shechita before condemnation Jews have faced these attacks for many years, along that of male circumcision, which is another story. Scechita was banned in Norway ,yet it allows Hunting,, Muslims to practise Hallal, and the Samis to kill their deer. But only Jewish slaughter is banmned. So it is not always because of animal riights.

  2. Marty Caine and other doubters: Try answering THIS question:

    How does APPEASING islam achieve anything other than helping islamic terrorism to grow?

    In the UK the authorities have been appeasing the adherents of islam for a long time now. They’ve been getting away with electoral corruption, unlawful sharia courts, forced marriages, halal slaughter, FGM, blatant sexism, homophobia, anti-semitism, and, literally, murder (known euphemistically as ‘honour’ murder, with many concealed cases being unknown and uninvestigated by the law); and the authorities fudge the barbarity and lawbreaking, ignore it, cover it up (paedophile muslim gangs) because they are cowardly idiots afraid of the ‘racist’ label, or paid-off officials as corrupt as the muslims themselves (as per their culture). Sometimes I wonder if the PTB are all really crypto-muslims, just waiting for the right moment to reveal their real loyalties, because they certainly don’t lie with the rightful inhabitants of this country.

    Every demand fulfilled, every law broken without punishment, every no-go ghetto allowed to establish itself every liberty they take without legal control being asserted to make them know who’s boss here, convinces them that we are weak and that they will rule before long. The long-term ‘outbreed the natives’ programme (hijrah) is too slow for some, hence the actual and attempted terrorist attacks planned and carried out in this country and other European countries, plus the numerous ones foiled in advance by the security services. How much this all costs our taxpayers, I dare say no government would want to reveal. It has to be spent in order to avoid more terrorist hits because more atrocities would result in a wave of outrage and recrimination against muslims, perhaps serious civil disorder instead of the useless ‘Je suis …’ placards and candle-lighting.
    We are even told by gullible or treasonous politicians that islam is not to blame, only those awful extremists – sheer propaganda that tries (and fails) to ignore the fact that islam IS in its very essence and DNA extremism of thought, word, belief and deed.

    So our free speech and our own long-term survival are being sacrificed by the authorities, by government, on the altar of appeasement and expediency and sheer failure of will to do anything meaningful to turn back the tide before it’s too late. Individuals who put their heads above the parapet to protest are picked off by the Thought Police armed with their ‘no free speech’ laws, aka ‘hate crime’ laws passed by idiot MPs.

    In answer to the question I posed earlier, then, APPEASEMENT of muslims achieves NOTHING AT ALL except to strengthen their determination to take what they want by jihad (‘holy’ war to spread islam) by all and every means: military jihad (terrorism); cultural jihad (hijrah and islamification of non-muslim territory); lying (allowed by the koran to fool the kaffar and protect islam); proselytisation (a worrying number of British fools have joined the cult); false indignation and cultivated victimhood (it’s always poor, innocent, wouldn’t hurt a fly muslims who are being picked on by the kaffar); constant incitement of grievance against the West and promises of paradise for martyrs (fire-breathing imams allowed into this country to preach hatred and violence by the likes of sharia May).

    Jihad is a ‘holy’ obligation for muslims and will continue in all possible forms that they can manage, including terrorism, until we are converted, dhimmified or killed (‘allah’s three ‘choices) OR until they are controlled and de-islamified, or expelled from our country never to return.


    I’m going to fight with words, with support for Anne Marie, with efforts to make our fellow- Britons aware, with tramping the streets to spread the word, and, if the worst comes to the worst and I’m still alive, with a weapon. We’ll probably have to rely on the Americans for the weapons.

    • Panmelia, whole comment is absolutely spot on. No one puts it better, thank you for this post. Hopefully you have written to NEC members, you will put it so well – I have had a nice reply from Fiona Mills.

      • Dee,

        So have I and it seems she agrees with us, so what about the others.

      • Thanks, Dee. I was so sick of Marty Caine’s repeated silly question, as seen in earlier posts on this page, that I thought a good blast was needed.
        The appeasers are exactly like those 1930s apologists for Hitler and his gang, the ones who accused Churchill of being a warmonger when he warned of the approaching danger. Some of those appeasers were afraid of another war with Germany after the horrors of the Great War, which is understandable, but also head-in-the-sand stuff when you are faced with an unappeasable aggressor. Fortunately, we saw the danger in good enough time to prepare to fight, but it was a close-run thing and American support – and Russian – was vital.
        We are now faced with another cycle of islamic insurgence, the kind that won them all the substantial territory in the world they now hold. It is utterly amazing and astoundingly dangerous that so many people in the west cannot see past the fake front of ‘religion of peace’ to the aggressive ambition for the spread of islam worldwide by all and every means.
        Trump is aware and we will have to work hard here in the UK to spread that awareness and force the government to act.

  3. Anne Marie, congratulkations on an excellent piece of writing.
    You may find an online website very useful in locating the true facts behind Islam and the dangers it exposes to Europe and the non Muslim world.
    You can visit Jewish Virtual Library and typ[e in your question as Islam, or indeed Christianity, if you wish.
    You might be surprised to learn that in Islamic teaching that Abraham, or Ibrahim in Arabic was a Muslim. Perhaps this exp[lains whyu, the Islamic Nazis asccuse Jews of being descended from apes and pigs. There is also the laws that teraches that Jews and Christians can be friends but not with Muslims. That another religion may nothjave a building higher or grander than a mosque.
    Of course, non Muslims living in an Islamic country are called Dhimmis, who must pay a special tax for the privilege of being alklowed to live under Islamic rule as second class person. no equal opportunities there then.
    Once an area comes under Islamic rule, it must remain Islamic or if lost, it must then be regained. So the Iberian peninsula and Southern France need to be very careful.
    This is why India was partitioned with West and East Pakistand (later Pakistan and Bangla Desh. This is why every country with big Muslim communities have problems including China, the Philippines, Israel etc. Incidentally, we hear of the poor Palestinian (a piece of marketing by the paedophile Yasser Arafat in 1964) refugees who had to live only a few miles away. While we hear nothing of the nearly one million Jews who were ethnically cleaned from the Muslim world leaving behind all their earthly possesions from their ancestral homes for thousands of years. Most went to live in Israel without any funding from the UN.

    • Martin, indeed your points are well made. The deadly influence of Islam is clearly evident. And it is not just a recent phenomenon. By recent I mean since the foundation of modern Israel.

      You are probably well acquainted with the Hamas charter, and the murderous instructions against Jews within it. Those instructions are quotes from the Hadith, the Islamic text second only to the Koran in significance. Written close to the start of Islam.

      Judaism must understand that despite the centuries of hatred directed against it by Islam, that in fact it is propping up Islam. In the particular matter discussed below, that Halal non-stun is being propped up by Kosher non-stun.

      Martin, can you think of any way that Judaism could be persuaded to use stunning, or maybe using an asphyxiating gas to render the animal unconscious before the throat is cut? Would the Rabbis be persuaded of a more modern method? It is important that Judaism stops propping up Islam, and this would be one less prop.

      • Hugo, you are correct that this Jewhate by Muslims is nothing new. We are often told the lie that the Jews had good relations and never suffered under Islamic rule. The slaughter of Jews and being considered lower than low is part of Islamic history. Just think, if the two largest Jewish tribes in the Yemen had co operated with each other, they could have defeated Mohmmed. Instead, they went against Jewish tradition to fight alone unsuccessfully against Mohammed and lost.
        I certainly am more than aware of the Hamas charter, Hezbullah, PLO/PA, Fatah and of course Iran.
        I understand your reasoning regarding Kashrut propping up Halla. In fact the two meethods are different and certainly, Islam does not make a big thing of showing consideration to all animals, let alone the sanctity of life towards humans.
        Hugo, to stun the animal first whether by bolt or by gas, means the animal is still aware of its condition before it is slaughtered and will be distraught. Even if it can not show it. This is still against Jewish law, as it is still causing distress for the animal. What can be better than the animal knowing no pain, discomfort and just falling asleep before pain start and dies. I must make one point here and that is, I do not eat meat and have not done so for many years. However, because of my compassion towards all animals, if I were to eat meat, I would only want to eat Kosher meat, as I know that the method is the most humane of all.
        I don’t believe that Kashrut props up Hallal, as the two methods are similar but not the same. We cerainly would not slaughter an animal in the street for a start.
        will now answer your post above

  4. Yes, Debbie , I’ve often wished for this. But Anne Marie hasn’t put her name forward as a candidate as far as I know – perhaps a submission of her name was thrown out in the same way that her other attempts to help the Party were sidelined.
    I wish we knew the truth about this and so many other things that go on in Ukip.

    • She was last up as a candidate for the London Assembly but was removed because of her association with Paul Weston and Tommy Robinson. Put another way, she would be allowed to stay a member provided she agreed to be removed. She judged at the time that Sharia Watch and Pegida Uk were likely to be more effective in opposition to the atrocities of Sharia and put principle ahead of personal ambition in the party.

  5. What is the true feelings of the bulk remaining members as to no confidence in the current leadership and some of the UKIP hierarchy because
    to start another party is IMHO ludicrous,but if the majority of membership want Paul Nuttall and others to move on surely they must, which will allow them to START ANOTHER PARTY more suited to their alleged needs.
    We can keep starting new parties until having a prayer mat is compulsory
    and will be checked by the establishments prayer mat police.

    • GEOFFREY CHARLES ELLIOTT. // March 11, 2017 at 5:37 pm // Reply

      ogga1,thanks for your comment,please see all of my comments on here,as well as on my previous support for Anne Marie Waters,and all my comments to her really excellent article entitled: UKIP MUST FACE ISLAM OR DIE.
      I am in my 73 RD year,and not in the best of health,but I still have a huge strength of character,and refuse to be silenced or cowed by anyone because I know in my heart that I am right,and Paul.Nutall &Co are finished,and the sooner they are gone,the sooner we we can recover.Tbat is why I am again calling on everyone who does not
      Throgh their absurd and inept mistakes,our membership is leaving en masse,as never before.Wether we can still survive is already now questionable.
      I am not asking for yet another damn leadership election,I just want Nutall to stand
      down,and be replaced,and of course it is also unthinkable that the failures who advised him,should remainas they are as damaged as he.If they had a decent bone in their body they would do the right thing,and LEAVE NOW!
      Thank you,Geoff.Elliott.UKIP Pontypridd,

      • I’m not yet convinced that Paul Nuttall should go. He’s a very new leader of a party in an identity crisis. For the sake of party unity he took appalling advice from the anti-Farage faction. He may well have learned a lot from all that, and he’ll clearly see the membership is losing faith fast.

        The situation is dire but it’s all self inflicted. The UKIP grassroots still have the right causes and potential mass support. We simply need a radical shakeup of the leadership. Paul Nuttall still has the support of Nigel Farage. Let’s see what he does over the next 3 months.

        • GEOFFREY CHARLES ELLIOTT. // March 12, 2017 at 12:56 am // Reply

          Sk,for crying out loud,of course Nutall must go.He and his dullard advisers must all go.They are a complete bunch of losers and liars,who reversed a long standing UKIP policy decision of wanting to
          Ban that vile bloodthirsty practice of non-stun slaughter which is designed to cause our poor and peaceful animals,the most tremendous pain and suffering and pain imaginable, by having their throats slit and then they are chained upside down and while still conscious they effectively choke,on their very own life blood.
          For God’s sake what the hell is wrong with you,and everybody who condones this from these most vile and barbaric and backward race of people.Read what I have written on here about Nutalll who I had been a great supporter of.However his vile and pathetic pandering
          and appeasement to the Muslims of Stoke,I find was both sickening totally unnecessary,as he failed miserably,first we had his lies then
          he sides with death cult Islamists,which was all for nothing,absolutely nothing,as the Muslims didn’t vote for him anyway,as they always vote labour.We all cheered him after his speech at our Conference in Bolton.little did we know that he had a hidden agenda which he failed to mention,and he did it in the most despicable and hidden and
          sneaky,sly and underhand way possible.That very fact proves to myself and most of my fellow UKIP activists,that he is just not fit to be the leader of our party anymore.The day after our Conference in Bolton,Saturday 18 TH February,many of us drove down to Stoke,
          and there a revolting Leaflet was seen,by one of our members,which you can all see below,how despicable and vile it really is,and just proves how out of touch with the Party Paul Nutall really is,therefore not fit to lead UKIP,the longer he stays,the more members we will lose,I do not want another leadership election,but I want Nutall to go.

          • Geoffrey, to be fair to Mr Nuttall the issue of Halal and Kosher without pre-stunning was a problem back in April 2015. There was a U turn, the previously humane policy was torn up, and replaced with one that permits slaughter without pre-stunning. It is unfair to blame him for promoting the existing UKIP policy in this area.

            The policy needs to be reversed. I believe that it can be but only if the leadership and NEC actually listens to the concerns of the grassroots members.

            I did not pursue it further when there was the policy U turn in April 2015. The focus was then on the general election and the referendum. Now is a suitable time to try to push for a return to the humane policy for UKIP.

  6. Add banning of non stun slaughter to our manifesto. On a personal note get Paul Nuttall to unblock members, he’s forcing them out the party.. How ridiculous to ask for support from behind a block. I support the party & always will, but Nuttall makes it dammed hard work.

    • GEOFFREY CHARLES ELLIOTT. // March 11, 2017 at 5:07 pm // Reply

      Carl this was our policy for 2 decades,as for Paul Nutaal forcing members out of the out of the party.He and all his dullard advisors should be forced out of the party.
      They are the numpties who made this most monumental mistake,by siding with the blood lust of the Islamists,they are as evil and vile as those bloodthirsty savages,who should never ever have been invited into my country,yes my country,as I belive that I and countless other people have more of a right to say that,as it was our brave and
      courageous ancestors,who paid the ultimate sacrifice,when they lost their lives
      fighting for our freedoms in Two World Wars,only for the scum such as War Criminal Tony Blair,and David Halal is safe with me Cam-Moron and lately that other verminous so called useless leader remainiac Sharia May,who is pro Islam,pro more
      Mosques and pro Sharia Law hence her apt niickname,to bend over backwards to the every wish of those followers of that most peverted of religions.I was a huge and enthusiastic supporter of Paul Nutall,his support of HALAL has indeed ended that.
      Paul Nutall,through his sly and underhand ways and lies of pandering to the Muslims of Stoke,who didn’t vote for him anyway,he has not only betrayed all of us but he has betrayed our hopes of banning bloody Halal.He is no different than those past and present traitorous,and despicable past and present leaders who have given everything we all worked so hard for away to the Moslems who hate us and seek and celebrate our death and destruction.The longer he and his whole cabal of losers remain in UKIP,the sooner we will implode,while they still remain,they are in fact
      hastening our demise.For God’s sake why hasn’t anyone in UKIP the forthsight and sheer tenacity and guts,and strength of character to stand up to the failure that
      Paul Nuatall now is,Finally why have all my fellow activists not joined me in demanding that the current crop of Muslim Appeasers are not thrown out of UKIP,or are they going to wait until we are Bankrupt?
      Thank you,

      • I share your palpable anger, Geoffrey, and have lost all enthusiasm for supporting Nuttall after his pathetic, futile attempt to appease muslims by abandoning animals to inhumane slaughter. Sucking up to muslims for votes is Labour’s shameful practice, not something I ever thought I’d see a Ukip leader do.
        I don’t want to give up on Ukip yet, because it has been the most successful non-mainstream party in achieving its main objective. The next few months will decide my continued membership, dependent on the following: Nuttall shapes up, apologises for that sickening leaflet and gets rid of those who formulated and supported it; plus he promotes Anne Marie Waters and her anti-sharia programme to a top position in the cadre of Ukip policy-makers.

        To this end I will send as many messages as possible to Nuttall, to the people named as spokespersons in Independence magazine and to the NEC. I also intend to raise these issues at Branch level and gauge support for an official Branch position to be taken.

        If nothing changes, my membership will lapse and I’ll devote the time and energy currently spent on Ukip to Anne Marie Waters’ campaign.

        • Branch level is vital. Anne Maria is offering to tour branches giving talks. We should each ensure that our branch, at the very least, issues an invitation to her. The leadership can then be informed that she came, she saw, and she has conquered. Only if branches are energised will they listen at all.

    • Carl, non stun slaughter is used by Jews and not just Muslims. However, there is a huge difference.
      Kosher meat, or the slaughter of animals for human consumption is based on humane killing. It is not a ritual slaughter but a slaughter of the animal which feels no pain and is dead before any feeling of pain can be experienced. Unlike tyhat of bolt or stun killing, which does not always work the first time and often a second and third bolt is necessary. The consequence of the poor animal panicking and nfright.
      The Kosher or Kashrut method is used with a very sharp and long knife which cuts through all veins and nerves meaning the animal literally goes to sleep immediately. The animal held firmly in place so that it is unable to move for the cut to be done correctly. It is then hung upside down in order for the blood to be expelled from the carcass.
      You can obtain more and accurate information online by visiting Kashrut UK.
      I personally do not eat meat of any kind, however, if I did as a person that feels responsible towards animals, I would only eat kosher meat, knowing that it follows what you call the laws withinm the Olsd Testament. There is enough evidence there whereby compassion towards animals is mentioned.

      • Martin, you are evidently sincere in your belief that the Kosher method is humane. However, do you not think that techniques have improved since the time that the Book of Leviticus was written, estimated at around 500 BC ~ 300 BC? Science and technology have advanced at an extraordinary pace.
        Other laws written in Leviticus, such as the death penalty for homosexual acts, and adultery were abandoned by Judaism many centuries ago. If Judaism can abandon one set of teachings from God, why not abandon others too which have become obsolete?
        How responsive is modern Judaism to scientific evidence?
        The RSPCA and the BVA want non-stun slaughter banned. Do you not believe that they know what they are talking about? That they have an excellent understanding of animal physiology? This is the 21st century, not 500 BC.

        • GEOFFREY CHARLES ELLIOTT. // March 13, 2017 at 4:35 am // Reply

          Hugo this my reply to what you had written to me on the 12 TH of March at 10:41 AM,2017.There was no provision for me to reply.
          Please click the link and you will see in black and white that we in UKIP were still supporting the banning of non-stun slaughter of especially Halal ritual slaughter,it just has no place in the 21 ST Century. In Britain today.
          Paul Nutall and his dullards reversed that decision,and produced a sickening Leaflet pandering to the death-cult Islamists,also His appeasement to Muslims was truly despicable.And what made all of us activists so very angry that he made not one single mention of his change of Policy during his speech to Conference at Bolton,in fact it was only after our colleague Dee saw the contents of that vile leaflet the very next day,while helping out at Stoke,that all hell broke loose..
          The underhand way he hid that leaflet and it’s absurd comments siding with the Moslems in their cruelty to all animals because they
          slit the throats of without fist stunning them.This vile practice should continue to be banned.
          Paul Nutall and his stupid advisors made a monumental mistake that proves he can never ever again be trusted,and that is why I want him and his stupid advisers to stand down,and to stand down now,he is no longer a fit person to lead UKIP.If he cared at all about the future
          of not only UKIP,but also our country he should have the decency to
          go now,the longer he remains,the more members we will.
          I am not calling for another damaging election,but I do want him replaced

  7. The UKIP leadership won’t take this seriously. They genuinely believe grassroot members to be politically “toxic” with nowhere else to go.

    We need to accept that the leadership does not want UKIP to be a controversial populist nationalist party. They truly believe it’s the wrong approach.

    It’s a tragedy. This isn’t the UKIP I joined. I want my party back but it’s not going to happen anytime soon.

    Aaron Banks & Co have the right idea. We’re going to have to build up a new mass membership populist movement that doesn’t compete directly with UKIP but does seek influence it.

    • Then when a variation of what has happened to UKIP occurs what then,start
      another party?

    • Smoked Kipper
      I agree with you. Something that seems to be being overlooked is the potentially malevolent intentions that could be occurring secretly within UKIP. Is it meant to survive ? If so is it being watered down so that it represents NO real threat to the Establishment parties ..

      • It does look like that but I think we’re giving our opponents too much credit. I think we’ve simply been hijacked by various low grade ex-Tories who simply wanted to be big fish in a little pond.

        Now they’ve got control they want to make sure UKIP is acceptable in their liberal minded social circles. They’ll ride UKIP into the ground rather than give up their positions.

  8. Below are the words copied from the main UKIP website in early February 2015. Shortly afterwards the web page disappeared, and there was a policy U turn in April 2015. Why not stick with the original humane policy below? It had already been reported in the press.

    UKIP support the BVA and RSPCA in calling for a ban on non-stun slaughter Research by the British Veterinary Association & FSA research tell us that Halal and kosher abattoirs cut the throats of 2.4 million sheep and goats without stunning in the latest recorded year. This is an increase of 60 per cent increase versus previous years. This trend is unacceptable. UKIP support the BVA and RSPCA in calling for a ban on nonstun slaughter.
    A UKIP spokesman said, “Animal and veterinary science has long concluded that cutting the throats of animals whilst they are fully conscious can cause significant distress and pain.
    “Pre stunning before religious ritual slaughter is fully compatible with all world religions. Therefore, we see no reason why religious groups should not take into account the concerns of animal welfare when carrying out slaughter.
    “We find the government response to this issue is weak, lazy and bordering on spineless. It says it would “prefer” animals to be stunned before slaughter but that it must “respect the rights of Jewish and Muslim communities to eat meat in accordance with their beliefs.”
    “It’s about time someone stood up for the rights of the silent majority in the ethical treatment of animals instead of bowing down to those who shout the loudest. “We respect religious groups to carry out slaughter in the UK according to how they define and read their scriptures. What we do not allow however is for the rights and demands of groups within those religion override the UK’s compassionate traditions of animal welfare.
    “There is a significant number of UK consumers that would prefer not to eat meat killed by religious slaughter. So, UKIP will also write into law that all animal meat produce will have mandatory labelling – providing clearly both the method of production and slaughter – giving people greater transparency and choice.
    “UKIP’s forthcoming manifesto on animal welfare will be the strongest of any major political party in the UK.”

    • Thank you for this quote, Hugo.
      It would be very interesting to learn who made that web page disappear. I think we can now guess at the reason why: the GE and the aim of garnering Labour votes …

      • Vivian, I do not know who made the policy U turn regarding non-stun abattoirs. I do know that the NEC was divided on this issue. I did contact as many NEC members as I could – those whose email addresses were in the public domain. I compiled a nine page document which included the feelings of a number of grassroots members and sent it to these NEC members. With the request that they made the effort to gauge the general feeling of members. Evidently my request was ignored because the U turn was made shortly afterwards. Quote:
        “I would respectfully ask the National Executive Committee to take note of the comments by our grassroots members. Also, before any reversal of this policy is implemented, that the comments of members in other branches be sought.”

        • Hugo, it was Farage himself that said no ban on kashrut. Unlike the large Muslim community. There is less than 300,000 Jews in the U.K.
          The expression in losing Jewish membership was classified as collateral damage. This was a direct insult purposely made towards the Jewish UKIP members

      • Yes, thanks so much, Hugo – I have just had an email from Fiona Mills, who says she is going to look into it, and now I can furnish her with the exact quote – pre GE. It is outrageous!

        • Dee, pleased that my contribution is helpful.
          I have not made a fuss about this over the last two years because the Brexit campaign was the top priority. However hopefully Article 50 will be triggered soon. We are on the way to getting our country back. Now we absolutely must recover our country from those who have been harming it. Decent treatment of animals is an indicator of the health of a society. I am sorry to say that the UK is seriously sick at the moment, and needs nursing back to health.
          We will win in the end. It may take some years to achieve, however goodness, decency and honesty are on our side.
          William Wilberforce and friends put an end to slavery two centuries ago. He also helped create the SPCA which became the RSPCA. The multi-culti appeasers of today would probably not ban slavery if it still existed today. “oh but it is their culture to keep slaves, we should not interfere, that is cultural imperialism and Islamophobic to ask them to stop it”.

    • GEOFFREY CHARLES ELLIOTT. // March 11, 2017 at 11:38 am // Reply
      Thanks Hugo for your contribution.Plese see my comment this very morning at 3:55 AM,and my comment yesterday.Since Dee on here told me about that vile and despicable Leaflet,I have writing both night and day,about Paul Nutall and his dullard advisors monumental mistake by siding with the blood-lust of the death-cult Islamists who demand that our poor animals die in way which they experience the most terrible and horrendous pain and suffering imaginable-HALAL.
      For further proof to see the disgusting and ridiculous and absurd way that Nutall was pandering to the Muslims of Stoke,see him,and his Halal eating and promoting damn UKIP colleague,also see in the photo,the two stupid UKIP members,who were helping that vile campaign.Does anyone know who they are,those disgusting individuals should be named,if you know them please email me their names at:
      To see Paul Nutall pictured in front of that damn Mosque,I was filled with loathing and
      disgust for him.His pandering to Muslims I find unforgivable.He is no better than that vile and verminous overgrown schoolboy David HALAL IS SAFE WITH ME CAM-MORON.In fact I would go further and say that Nutall is even worse than that numpty Cam-Moron,because he and his advisors by pandering to the Muslims,who didn’t vote for us anyway,they never do,has let the majority of UKIP members and supporters in Britain down very badly,members are now leaving in droves.
      Muslims should never ever have been allowed into Britain,their way of life is an exact opposite to ours,and everything that I especially hold dear,all our dogs and cats me and my wife,and whole family have enriched our whole lives,they hate with a vengeance,still don’t belive me then Google Up: DEAD DOG JIHAD.
      Then there is our love of music,they have said (the Muslims) that when they take over they will destroy all musical instruments,no more concerts,operas,nothing.
      I campaigned and supported Paul Nutall,now I want him out,he is not fit to lead my
      beloved Party UKIP.

      • Geoffrey, the problems with the party policy existed long before Mr Nuttall became leader. Maybe he had not been aware of the grassroots feelings on this matter? Pragmatically there is very little point in UKIP trying to chase after the Muslim vote – they are pretty much going over to Labour.
        And the upside for UKIP of standing up for decency is the huge potential white working class vote. They are the ones who have to live with the massive cultural changes.
        Regarding pre-stunning: I was aware (early April 2015) that there was going to be a policy U turn. Of the members who I contacted, all of them (with one partial exception concerned about practicalities) wanted to retain the humane policy.
        I have kept quiet for nearly two years as the Brexit campaign was top priority. Now is the time to speak out for a thorough policy review in this whole area.

  9. I am appalled by Paul Nuttall and his leaflet released during the Stoke by election. I was embarrassed by the allegations of his lying and the advisors and policy makers should be fired for bringing Ukip into disrepute. I have therefore withdrawn my membership.

    • Morning Pam,
      I am sure that will be a great help to the only party that is proved by it’s past history as much as it is ,is the only pro English/ GB political show in town,being somewhat of a forward thinker I am renewing mine.

    • I agree Pam. These are the feelings of many previously loyal members. My membership runs until Oct. But I will not renew. I can no longer support the UKIP Party because I believe there is now such a grave disconnect that UKIP no longer represents a pro English/GB political Party and will fall by the wayside. There must be change.

  10. How about forming a new party called Secular Brotherhood (or something along those lines) with Anne Marie as a leader? A party that defend secularism, the law of the land and British traditions is what is needed in this country. I would certainly support that.

  11. To whom it may concern could you please refrain from altering my post’s
    ie the 5.52 comment do not put in your wording under my user name, if you find you must, then blank out the wording you find offensive.

  12. GEOFFREY CHARLES ELLIOTT. // March 10, 2017 at 6:35 pm // Reply
    Pauln Nutall has betrayed all of us.He kept the contents of that vile and and despicable Leaflet hidden.While we were all cheering him loudly after his speech at
    our Conference in Bolton,he had a hidden agenda which he deliberately failed to disclose to us.We again cheered him,at the meal many of us went to on the Friday evening at Bolton.Little did any of us know of his deceit and complicity in what has surely wrecked any hopes we had in the council elections in May.Paul Nutall preferred instead to pander to the Muslim vote in Stoke,who don’t and didn’t vote for us.Worse still then he and his cronies decided to further side with the blood-lust of the Muslims,by going back on 2 decades of UKIP policies,by reversing our decision to no longer support the banning of that most vile and despicable demands of that most perveted religion,that is Halal.Banning Halal was one of the main reasons I actually joined UKIP.I have fought long and hard for the survival of UKIP for over 16 years,I have been attacked,my vehicles have been damaged,I have lost count the number of times I have been called a Racist.Even though I visited Stoke on the Saturday,I drove down from Bolton in my Hymer,I did not see that disgusting Leaflet,
    if I had all hell would have broken out.The first I heard about it was when a fellow member Dee,who is an avid contributor on here,told me of it’s exisrence.If you click the above link,you will be all be able to see how Paul Nutall is indeed damaged goods.I was a huge Supporter of Paul Nutall as was our member Rhys Burriss,on here.So it is with a heavy heart that I now want Paul Nutall to to stand down.I am not asking for a leadership election,I just want him replaced.His lies and stupidity have set us back years,even now so much damage has been done,UKIP might not even
    survive,our members are leaving in droves ,we were short of coffers before this disaster.Paul Nutall is damaged goods,and the longer he remains,the more desperate becomes our position.I also want all of his absurd advisors,who who are as complicit and guilty as he is,to also stand down,they are not fit to continue in office.Their silence on this is deafening,they are hoping that it will fade away,belive it will not.I have put my neck on the line,what has happened to all the fighting talk of
    yesterday,has anyone got the guts to join me,or are you all going to do nothing,and
    see our Partyv be destroyed from within by the Muslim Appeasers..

    • And I would add that during the leadership hustings he kept quiet about what he must have known he would do if he won and that is elevate Suzanne Evans to head of policy. Nuttall is culpable as you and others describe but so are the coteriw of advisors around him. A real leader would fire them for their disastrous advice.

      • I agree with you . Nuttall is IMO dishonest. Personally I can no longer trust what he says. I believe he is a weak man.. a puppet in the hands of those careerists around him . Will get worse. Disappointed. Time now for a reformed Movement/Party.

    • Completely agree. But I’m not a member of UKIP, (and not likely to be one now.) So it’s difficult to see how I can help.
      UKIP has achieved what it set out to achieve, so it hasn’t been a waste of anybodies time. If Anne Marie can succeed in being the ‘man’ of the proverbial moment, then all good. But the rot that needs removing first, before Anne can even get close to the door, looks terminal from where I’m standing.

    • GEOFFREY CHARLES ELLIOTT. // March 11, 2017 at 3:55 am // Reply

      Default Re: UKIP NEC votes to ban Halal and Kosher ritual slaughteri
      Outlawing the religious killing of animals without pre-stunning shouldn’t upset the joos too much should it? I thought the muslims would be more likely to go nuts if they couldn’t get their teeth into animals’ flesh that have suffered long the pain of ritual slaughter without pre-stunning.

      I do think they’re likely to pick up more votes to counter balance or outweigh the loss of the joo vote, but this policy won’t make enough of an impact unless they really go all out to highlight what halal & kosher means because there are still many people in the dark about it.

      I’d hazard a guess that most if not all of the native population would be against un-stunned ritual barbaric slaughter of innocent animals. The pain they must feel at the hands of these murderous bastards must be excruciating. It has been proven that they take a few minutes to die in this manner – and longer if their killers enjoy seeing them suffer (which they do) whilst chanting their islamic war cries to allahu akbar… I can’t bear to think of it but it has to stop so please everyone help…

      I think Paul Nuttall may like to hear a few words of support over this issue, and I would urge anyone to get in contact :

      The new office postal address is:

      UKIP North West
      PO Box 2034
      L69 2DG


      Tel – 0151 3759660

      Brussels Address

      Street: 60, rue Wiertz
      Postcode: B-1047
      City: Brussels
      Country: Belgium

      Office BRU: ASP 03F167
      Office STR: LOW T08093
      Telephone BRU: +32 (0)2 28 45740
      Telephone STR: +33 (0)3 88 1 75740
      War is coming;
      Last edited by Aggro Saxon; 02-06-2015 at 10:34 AM.

      • Thanks for that, Geoffrey, I shall write!

      • It is obvious that one needs not to scratch too deeply to see what lies within you.. or is it that you find spelling Jews too difficult?
        Jooos is an insult and I wonder where you were before you joined UKIP?
        National Front, BNP, Column 88 orwere you a supporter of The black shirt Mosley.?

        • GEOFFREY CHARLES ELLIOT. // March 13, 2017 at 2:23 am // Reply

          Dear Martin,I am horrified to know that I have caused offence.
          Please believe me it was not my intention whatsoever to upset you in any way.Martin there is no way on earth that I would or could write something like that,with that derogatory and unkind misspelling of the word Jews.Martin if you click the above link,you will see that I did not
          write that,it was in fact penned by someone who calls himself,
          AGRRO SAXON.The only thing that I did was to copy and paste the article,if you return to my comment,you will see that what I have written is in capital letters.The main reason I posted this was so that
          everyone would be able to have Paul Nutall’s ensil address and telephone numbers,and my colleague and fellow activist Dee is now going to contact Paul Nutall.Martin belive me I am.a friend of Jews and a UKIP supporter of Israel,and I get sent THE TIMES OF ISRAEL.Martin in the past you have replied to my comments and
          supported my stance against the Muslification of Britain,and all the rest we in Britain have to put up with from that peverted religion.
          Martin we have so much in common,and you are a loyal supporter of UKIP.It was apprehensible of me that i ever posted that comment.
          Before I joined UKIP,I was only ever a Labour partty member,and that was for the biggest part of my life.I left,as did all my friends when that
          illegal War in Iraq started.I also hated all the Anti-Semitism that exists in the Labour Party today.Martin,please do not hesitate if you would
          like to contact me: I am so sorry,Geoff.

        • GEOFFREY CHARLES ELLIOTT. // March 13, 2017 at 2:58 am // Reply

          Martin and everyone else,please read all my comments and replies.
          Thank you,Geoff.Elliott,UKIP Pontypridd.

  13. Stout, my membership lapses in the summer. I hope by then I will be proud of UKIP once again!

    • So do I but I suspect it may take longer. Doncaster conference is 22nd and 23rd Sept.

    • Just a guess from the hip, I would say that a far greater percentage of Jews are secular and don’t give a toss about kosher compared to the proportion of Muslims insisting on Halal, so even from a tactical point of view, you are not going to turn off that many potential voters by banning both (or rather insisting on electro-stun or whatever).

      • You are wrong. Most secular Jews will still see the attack on Kashrut as an attempt to hinder Jewish people’s choice of slaughter. For whatever reason and my bet is that the majority of those against are ignorant of Shechita and from what I have seen here, just good old hate towards the less than 300,000 UK Jews. Certainly there has been total disrespect towards Jewish members.

    • Hi Dee. Are you prepared to be a proud UKIP member with the Carswell clique still in place ? Or are you expecting change ?

      • Hi Barbara
        I am doing my best to aid those who want to get UKIP back, in whatever way I can, from my iPad. Trying to get UKIP Daily out there into Twitter so that more people can come together and work out, as Stout’s excellent suggestion does, a strategy for regaining the UKIP we were all proud of. Together we are strong, there are more, I believe, against the direction in which UKIP is being taken than are for it. So we need to be drawn together, because it would be difficult to get an alternative party out into the Public mind before the next GE.
        So please, I know you feel as strongly as others, tweet articles as much as you can, so that we can link everyone together. We have lost so many members that needed to fight, but with Anne Marie and John R-E still loyally carrying the UKIP flag, it might just happen!

  14. Oh I so wish, Debbie, then we could be proud again – don’t forget J R-E, it would be a dream team!

  15. The threat that lies in foreign migration comes from ethnicity, religion is merely an attendant side-issue. Those who oppose a religion but not the migration that carries it are fooling themselves.

    Ms Waters, Paul Weston, et al, in their fixation on Mohammedanism & their deeply patronizing Integrationist stance for foreign migrants, are distracting people from the real dangers that we are in the midst of here, & of which there is no end in sight with the dreadful Liblabcon’s Treason May in Downing Street for the foreseeable political future.

    • Who says we don’t oppose the migration that carries it? We do. But the religion and the culture it spawns is here already and growing endogenously because we allow faith schools, because we are supposed to respect “faith”, and without a political and cultural push back we permit the increasing normalisation of treating women as men’s property. The lack of what you so disparagingly call `fixation’ is how 1400 children were raped over a period of years in Rotherham.

      • That is why immmigration control is not enough; repatriation to the country of their origin is necessary. The threat we face is greater than that our parents or grandparents faced in the last war; greater because it is insidious. The governments which facilitated it are truly Cicero’s enemy within.

      • I haven’t heard Ms. Waters, Paul Weston – & increasingly even more moderate individuals like Pat Condell & Douglas Murray, etc. – talk about anything but Mohammedanism which they are absolutely fixated by, & posit Integrationist solutions to it, & I’ve had Ukippers increasingly online going along with it & positively asserting to me that ethnicity isn’t an issue culture/religion is, i.e. if we convert them to being us culturally that’s the problem solved.

        What happened in Rotherham was a mess, which was as much about the disgusting cultural condition that elements of the English working classes have degenerated into in those areas of the Midlands & North as it was about some Asiatic savages taking advantage of it.

        There’s an obsession with a particular religion here – reflected in part by the near hysteria on this site yesterday in response to Ms Waters’ article, that’s warping this debate away from the real nature of the threat that the 1st World is facing with migration, which is a dangerous distraction from the real issue, i.e. stopping foreign mass immigration, not because there’s anything wrong with its culture, but because it is a foreign people moving into other peoples’ territory, which presages war on that ground ultimately.

        • What happened in rotherham in the way of long term cover ups
          by establishment employees should have kept labour out of parliament for at least a millennium,then some.
          Mass uncontrolled immigration / islam all part and parcel of the same issue.

          • Brian OtridgeBrian Otridge // March 10, 2017 at 5:27 pm //

            I met a lady from Rotherham Council in a relevant department who was a member of UKIP. at a Conference once. She told me how they all knew what was going on but were threatened from above with the sack if they so much blew a tiny whistle

          • Brian Otridge,
            Hard to believe when the same council / social services took
            two UKIP foster parents foster children into care homes purely on account of the parents being UKIP.

        • Ajax, I am sorry, I understand what you are saying, and I have to disagree with you, on many counts. Firstly, the ‘savages’ who inflicted such dreadful things on the young girls of Rotherham (and elsewhere, it still goes on) were not ‘Asiatic’ as in various groups of people from,the Asian continent. That is the shameful inference also made by the MSM. The people who did this were Muslim men, and it was not just white young girls that were targeted, but other ethnicities too.
          It was men who believed they were entitled to treat girl children in that way because of Islamic teachings, in other words, devout followers of Islam.
          Devout followers of any other religion would not, and do not behave in this way, which is why I personally am relaxed about Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists and others.
          It is not hysterical to oppose the creeping Sharia Law that is threatening our way of life – there are no Sikh or Buddhist (to pick out two) ‘zones’ in Britain where, as happened the other day, an old man was badly beaten for drinking alcohol. You are willfully blind, if you don’t believe that Islamisation via Sharia is completely against the values of this country that we all, whatever other ‘religion’ or none we might be, wish to live by.
          I haven’t noticed any other ‘religion’ preaching either death to apostates or to gays, nor advocating stoning of women.

          • Dee, the men that abused those English girls in Rotherham were Asiatics from the Pakistani community that is located there, they didn’t do it because the Qur’an told them to, they did it because they are savages & these girls were so reduced in character that they went out of their way to make themselves vulnerable to such predatorial behaviour.

            As for how potentially peaceful the other groups you mention are compared to Mohammedans, click on these links for evidence to the contrary:






            The threat is ethnicity, religion & culture that derive from ethnicity are merely flashpoints based on its foundation.

          • Wholehearted agreement. I am not a member of UKIP, and live abroad, I got here via Anne Marie Water’s original article. I am a little shocked to see the “argument” used here by some on the topic of Islam/Sharia/gang rape etc. Very much like what I have heard/seen from members of the Labour and Green party, and other apologists for Islam. It seems people don’t get it, but saying that, I only really started to look into Islam myself after Charlie Hebdo, and in general, as a nation I think we are/have been pretty clueless on the topic of ideologies and religion, just not used to thinking and discussing it any more. Education must continue, keep up such posting.

          • Ajax, that is misleading. Link me to other ‘religious adherents’ in this country who use violence to further their ‘religion’.
            Most who have moved here have embraced the values of Britain, where they have made their home. There may be one or two from any religion who attack or injure others, but no other ‘religion’ seeks to undermine and overturn the British Law.
            World wide, religion is the cause of much murder and mayhem, but you are being disingenuous with the links you have given, though I don’t expect to change your view.
            It is not mine.
            The children preyed upon were not ‘reduced in character’ they were vulnerable for many different reasons, but mainly because most had not been lucky enough to have been given a stable loving home with moral compass, whatever type of home that might be. Once lured in by drugs, almost all found it impossible to break free, and even when they tried, were given no help.

          • Dee, as instructed in the Koran – sex slaves “that which your right hand possesses”. The Rotherham girls were treated as property.

        • AJAX ‘they didn’t do it because the Qur’an told them to’…

          Robert Spencer, Jihadwatch 16/7/15:
          “Much more important is the fact that the Qur’an sanctions the sexual slavery of Infidel women (see the passages on “the captives of the right hand”: 4:3, 4:24, 23:1-6, 33:50). But no one in Britain has the courage to confront that.”

  16. I absolutely agree that there must be a role for Anne Marie in Ukip. No one is braver or more committed to the cause of standing up for victims of FGM and grooming gangs. These are issues that have been neglected by all mainstream parties including Ukip. People are crying out for action and we need to be a voice to these people and there is no better person to represent Ukip and be that voice than Anne Marie Waters. If we as Ukip don’t stand up for these abused women and girls who will? Give her a prominent role and she will make a difference.

  17. The labour party appeases islam because muslims are regarded as part of the labour core vote. At least until muslims start their own party.

    Theresa May appeases islam because of Saudi and Qatar money. To the extent that she wears a headscarf like a good little infidel woman when she meets with muslim leaders. Marine Le Pen showed how that nonsense should be treated.

    The ordinary working and middle class voters of Britain are less impressed with the political and media fakenews about islam being a religion of peace. We are getting tired of it to the point of anger. But no leader of a political party is paying attention to that feeling. UKIP should be doing that. We’re supposed to be the party that LISTENS to the people. Why aren’t we?

    • Because UKIP is run by a crony cabal who put self interest before their country, their officials outside that group and their members. They have to go but I expect it will take a year or so for them to realise the loss of members and their subscriptions. Will they then waken up?

      It makes me very angry that UKIP has been lost to them.

    • Those are subsidiary reasons for Labour and the Tories supporting the growth of Islam in Britain. The big reason is to undermine identity and culture so Britain becomes just another business park for the globalists peopled by drones to work for them. The Muslims are being used just like everyone else. We are all pawns in a great game. Black people too. All that anti-racism stuff is just to use them too. ‘We are your friends’.

      Having a homeland is being demonised. UKIP won’t touch this. Everyone is on a salary at the top.

  18. UKIP needs reform, a total clear out is required, otherwise it is dead.

    How could the current party manage to lose Stoke, a clear sign that the hierarchy are not fit for purpose.

  19. Problem with Anne Marie Waters is she blames 1.6 billion Muslims with no exceptions and that will only ever result in turning more Muslims into Islamic extremists and that is not a very smart solution to the problem. We all need to attack the root of the problem of extremism in way it stops them recruiting more members and so it dies out. If you follow AM Waters far right idea you are only ever going to succeed in making the problem far worse than it already is. IMHO

    • Ann-Marie Waters is not “far right”.She is patriotic and a believer in independent nation states.The Bill of Rights and Magna Carta – these are not Far Right. Far Right is a term of abuse favoured by the evil bbc. Nor does she blame the totality of all muslims for the problems the UK faces with Islam. Read her article!
      The problem is that Britain has been in the grip at least partially of the Far Left, which includes not just corbyn but many MPs of the SNP, LibDems, and the tories.Far Left is based upon marxist cant and lies and the lazy stupid thinking of sociopaths.

      • Many upvotes CK – far right is discredited – everyone refers to ‘far right Marine Le Pen, when in fact she is well to the left of Corbyn.

    • In the 1980s and 1990s the BBC was perpetually lampooning and ridiculing Christianity with satirical comedy programmes. I don’t recall many Christians resorting to violence in response. Islam and its adherents are different and it is not a difference we should accept. The problem with FGM, honour killings, and forced marriages should never have arisen in the first place nor should the large increase in attacks on Jews that has accompanied the rise in Muslim numbers. A recent funeral in Birmingham, for a local Islamic TV star, was attended by thousands – all men. The incompatibility between Islam and the West runs deep. I have no idea why Anne Marie is regarded as `far right’ ,a term usually reserved for people who highlight uncomfortable contradictions in mainstream thinking, but someone has to bring the issue with Islam to the fore and if no longer equivocating with weasel words is to be achieved, if there is to be proper debate, then campaigners like Anne Marie are needed. The status quo is part of the problem.

      • I put this question to many people and they all struggle to give me an answer, the debate always goes away from the question, usually into to calling me an Islam apologist. So can anyone here just answer me this one simple question….

        How does attacking Islam achieve anything other than helping Islamic extremism to grow?

        That is not a question posed in defence of anything at all, it is simply asking what is the end outcome of the action. Because I believe the more we attack Islam the more we make it easier for the extremists to recruit and grow in numbers and that to me makes very little sense at all. Maybe I am missing something and there is a miraculous cure by using the attack Islam method, so if it is there then please tell me what it is.

        • No-one is `attacking’ Islam. We seek to remove its special privileges, to subject it to question like any other religion, to ensure it has parity of status with Christianity as subject of humour, and to nake secular law apply to all. `Attacks’ in Islam, whatever you mean by that, has not caused FGM, honour killings or forced marriages, has not has caused Islam’s manifest homophobia and misogyny. As to terrorism that grows out of a belief system of matyrdom in which there is 1) a heaven and 2) you get in by killing innocent citizens and 3) will find 72 virgins waiting for you. Suicide bombers do not act in the belief of their own oblivion into nothingness. We have not caused such a delusional belief system. Rather, multiculturalism – your backward system is OK – has allowed the belief system to grow unchallenged. By respecting `faith’ we legitimate delusion. BY allowing faith schools we encourage indoctrination and normalisation of Islam’s pernicious beliefs.

          • That didn’t answer the question, what you actually did is say no one is attacking it and then attacked it, completely missing my point but inadvertently proving it.

            Undoubtedly in the same way so many are inadvertently helping Islamic Extremism to grow!

    • Marty, that is rubbish, if you want to go to the root of the problem then head in the direction of the lab/lib/con coalition open border mass uncontrolled immigration policy tribal voters.
      There is no far right in this issue Soldier Rigby RIP dictates that and 51 obelisks in lomdon

    • Threats that whatever we do will result in yet more islamic extremism should be seen as what they are. Threats. From a cult that was made popular by a bandit paedophile centuries ago in a desert to keep his gang motivated.

      In Britain muslims are PAID TO BREED. That is the greatest criminal insanity of the 21st Century.

    • You are wrong about islam. Wrong about how to solve the problem that islam presents. Wrong about AM Waters being ‘far right’.

      You seem to be a specialist in being wrong.

      • I may well be wrong but that still does not alter that little fact that neither you nor anyone else can actually answer my question and trust me I have asked a lot of people to answer it now.

        I said to Anne Marie on Twitter, the funny thing is we both want the same thing but we are just going about it differently, she blocked me.

        All I am really saying is I see something where we are making a problem worse rather than better and that to me make no sense at all. It makes even less sense that by pointing it out I am apparently an Islam apologist. Which is quite amusing after having years of being called a racist, xenophobic bigot.

        • How are we making it worse? Calling out FGM and forced marriages makes it worse? Surely we got here by not being vocal enough. I have no idea what you think should be done but acquiescence and indulgence has not worked so far. The idea that attacking Islam makes terrorism worse is historically false.

          • Those are the the things that we should be attacking, the effects of Islam not Islam itself. The only references to the actual religion should be to show the hypocrisy of those who use the Quran for the own evil intent. For example, doesn’t the Quran state it is not permissible for Muslim to settle among the Kaffirs? We need to use their holy book against the extremists rather than attacking it, which achieves nothing in our favour. It is nothing more than a change of tactics because the present course of action is obviously not working. Obviously something that I have not been explaining too well.

    • Raymond Ibrahim – ‘The root cause behind nonstop Muslim terrorization of the West is found in those who stifle or whitewash all talk and examination of Muslim doctrine and history; who welcome hundreds of thousands of Muslim migrants while knowing that some are jihadi operatives’.

    • Admit it, you are a Labour plant, or just clueless on these issues. You grossly misrepresent AMW’s position, and the argument that “speaking out on Islam will only make them go all terroristy” just about takes the biscuit in idiocy. You are either a troll, or just woefully unable to think straight on these issues.

      • Chris, Marty used to be a UKIP supporter. He became disillusioned with UKIP and started his DDIP Party, which is a Direct Democracy Party.
        I don’t understand his stance on Creeping Islamification of large parts of Britain.

  20. Sorry but ‘diversity with commonality’ is a spurious idea designed to fence sit. The flaw is that once there are enough people who are different they can use their group power and have no incentive to adopt commonality. It’s human nature and it’s not going away.

    • Diversity can refer to ethnicity (many non whites are members of mainstream secular culture) or to culture. Just focusing on diversity without clarification allows ethnic equality to masquerade as cultural equality. Adding `commonality’ remmoves cultural equivalence and is not meant to be fence sitting. Given the prevalence of references to diversity we need to always respond with some qualificaation that highlights the difference. If not adding commonality to the term in discourse we risk being seen as anti ethnic diversity. What term would term would you use as an alternative to commonality. In media sound bite terms we need some qualifier to add.

      • How much ethnic diversity Stout Yeoman are you not against? If you are not against it at all then we have my pet illustration of the fallacy of the entire population being replaced by say Africans and then arguing everything is fine and it’s prejudice to suggest otherwise.

        If there is no primacy at all for British whites then we have no homeland. Where do you stand on our having a homeland? If that’s not an acceptable idea then you are a no borders globalist.

        Hardly anyone wants to address the issue of a homeland! Surprise. As soon as you do you want privilege in a homeland space for your own people the real racists will call you a ‘racist’. So fudge and mudge until we cease to exist.

    Evans, Carswell,Nuttall, Flynn, and various MEPs.
    We are facing at best a big setback in the May elections which will only encourage the Remainiacs.
    We meed major change and the most important would be elections for Chair and Leader ANNUALLY. A good leader could withstand the pressure and the Chairman would have to be sensible and not a fantasist.
    An alternative to such drastic action is an NEC with teeth so that not even the leader can decide to rewrite UKIP policy on the hoof as Paul Nutter did on his visit to his favoured ‘religious building’.
    The leadership mistakes in Stoke were never ending and have left the party very badly damaged.

    • Being a long term supporter / member I in no way feel” badly damaged” I do feel disappointed by the Stoke result and the bad planning.
      I would feel “badly damaged” if I was a member of the labour party that covered up long term paedophile activities or the other mob who have “badly damaged” the faith people had in the vows,pledges and promises department.

      • Oh, Ogga, how could you not feel embarrassed, if you have supported the UKIP that once it was?
        I could perhaps forgive all the cringeworthy own goals by a clueless leader, even the weird idea that you don’t wear a suit outside London, but the craven pandering leaflet will haunt UKIP for a long time to come, no matter what happens from here. We only asked for loyalty to Britain and it’s values, and what we got was a signal that UKIP sees nothing wrong with the status quo.
        If things continue as they are I will not renew my membership, but before that, I intend to aid all those who want to get UKIP back.

        • Dee, having worked in some of the worlds superior unpleasant countries ie nigeria,libya, in construction maybe my makeup is of sterner stuff also I am not strong in the embarrassment department.
          Being a very long term supporter I am well use to ridicule and the hate smear campaign was in many ways a god send among people of decency and common sense and must have led many to join the peoples army.
          Dee, my membership renewal comes up next month and will be renewed promptly, it has and still does give one a feeling of self respect which is not forthcoming from the lab/lib/com coalition.

          • I had it, Ogga, that feeling of self respect, and I join the fight of those that want to get it back into UKIP.
            Sadly at the moment UKIP has very little to distinguish it from others, apart from the fact that it achieved Brexit, if indeed it does – May now having evidence that UKIP is weak and losing support – it used to be radical, it used to speak out about what was wrong, it used to believe that British values were worth fighting for, it used to offer people a voice who also believed.

          • Dee,
            Then surely a concerted effort must be made to inform
            Mr P Nuttall of the discontentment of many of the members
            with some urgency, and must surely be made en bloc.
            If members wish to leave before any such action that is their prerogative but to continue to whinge not only belittles the good name the party once had prior to the hate smear campaign it also belittles the individual.

          • Your comment makes some sense, Ogga, though I personally believe that Stoke has done for Nuttall in the eyes of the public, and he will run UKIP into the ground no matter how loyal his members. UKIP I see tonight is one point ahead of the Limp Dems in the polls. It’s the party I care about, I don’t and never did as you know from the past rate Nuttall at all.

  22. Do we not simply want equality before the law? With no exemptions on any religious pretext? Likewise gender equality?

    As SY says, Singapore doesnt have a problem with freedom of worship because they won’t put up with any of them forcing it down other people’s throats.

    But the Uk authorities have sat back and deliberately or otherwise, allowed it to gain traction and of course we will be accused of declaring war on Islam if/when we confront it.

    But it needn’t be true.

    If ukip is the “when in Rome…” Party, I can’t help feeling it needs to start saying so in those terms, that we are about equality before the law and so on.

    And a start would be invoking the memory of Asad Shah, the Glasgow shopkeeper murdered for wishing his customers a happy Easter, to emphasise that our target is the motivation of the murderer, not the Muslim, isn’t it?

  23. Disappointed by both Islamist appeasement and faux ” country gent” in Stoke.
    Not smart, we are supposed to be the party of the people. If Muslims want to be part of UKIP, so be it, but on UKIP terms, not Muslim terms.

  24. I do agree with Stout Yeoman on Ann Marie,one smart move in the right direction will reverse the alleged falling membership numbers and start to strengthen the party once more at a time that it is sorely needed.
    Instead of individuals contacting the party office could we not have a link of sorts and tell the head office en masse our needs regarding Ann Marie and the needs for a spokesperson of her ilk in a role suggested by Stout Yeoman?

    • That’s a very good idea, Ogga – any ideas, Viv, could we perhaps have something on here that we could add our email addresses, membership number to? Leave it up for a week, advertise it via Twitter – with a place for ex kippers who would return/renew?

      • I’m sorry, Dee, but that is not advisable. It would mean that your personal email addresses were public for anybody to see, inviting loads of spam and trolling and, given certain organisations like ‘Hope not hate’, might even leave you open to personal attacks.
        Attracting kippers who’d like to return/renew is best doe by getting them to read and comment by tweeting – anybody with a twitter account should do so – and linking on their Facebook pages.

        • Vivian,
          I merely put it forward as an idea to show a strength of feeling and discontentment, I do not suggest a posters address but surely their membership card number would suffice,the office already has that and if so wish can check authenticity.
          This would also give a truer reading of feelings as defining who are members and who are not.

  25. Good points. Well made.

  26. There’s no grey area here. Either UKIP is broadly supportive of islam (as Nuttall sets out in his election leaflet). Or it is opposed.
    Clearly it is supportive at this time.
    Are UKIP members happy with that? Were UKIP members even consulted for their views on that?
    Now is the time to ‘vote’. Make your positions clear.

    • Heather Phillips // March 10, 2017 at 12:46 pm // Reply

      As a Ukip member who will not be renewing in May, I am not happy with that. Keeping Carswell the traitor in the party, giving Suzanne Evans a job, allowing John Bickley who is snarling and agressive to still be treasurer, having Carswell, Evans (who have blocked me on Twitter) and Paul Nuttall, who has blocked other members on Twittern continue as leader and take the party in a different direction, let alone THAT leaflet and the removal of the ban on halal would have been enough reason for leave the party. Let alone the strange administration and result of some elections within the party.

      There are a lot of loyal, hard working and decent members of Ukip and I will be sorry not to be among them, but without Nigel, another leader like Nigel with charisma, a new and dedicated NEC and a completely different hierarchy at the top, Ukip is doomed.

  27. I urge anyone who has any form of social media to Tweet this, Facebook it or do whatever you can to get this brilliant article out there. Thank you so much, Stout, for this, we, the members ARE UKIP, we must not sit back, cut up our membership cards and let UKIP die. It is too important that UKIP gives a voice to all those that can see what is wrong, but have had no one to stand up for them. Together, we CAN GET OUR UKIP BACK.

    • I am glad you too are staying to fight for our party. Desertion from UKIP will further fragment resistance as members decamp to LibertyGB, Britain First, and the BNP. My fear is the new manifesto that Nuttall, Evans and O’Flynn are working will lose the party’s mojo completely. A position for Anne Marie will put the right DNA back into the party. We must not falter on this, must not sink back into resignation and merely hope.

  28. “Cronyism is still rife in UKIP…” says it all and the main reason that I am not yet a member. If the crony cabal of UKIP (or anyone else for that matter) doesn’t take the threat seriously then they should be put on the front line when it all kicks off in earnest.

    Time is fast running out.

  29. Not exactly on subject, but given the screams of hatred that would result from bad handling of the problems with radical Islam, here is an interesting fact.
    Why is it not plastered all over the MSM that in Pendle, the local Libs and Labour have formed a coalition with the BNP to run the council ? ( The single UK BNP councillor holds the balance of power).
    When it comes to smearing UKIP, we are a special case, anything goes, including intimidation against members. I caution you. We do have a problem with the deeply engrained cultural and social aspects of Islam but we have freedom of worship in this country and that must never change.

    • Icini, nothing is stopping us! Write a letter to all mainstream papers – ring in to talk shows, if you know something like this, get it out there. Don’t just complain on here!

    • Heather Phillips // March 10, 2017 at 12:49 pm // Reply

      Yes it should change, but only in respect of Islam, which is not a religion but an evil idealogy. No other religions support the killing of non believers, so Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists, Hari Krishnas and Christians should have freedom to worship as they please.

      • Agreed. The point is that Sharia Law is the building block on which the political ideology of Islam is founded. There is no other ‘religion’ that has laws which demand the death penalty for those that don’t adhere to them. As Erdogan has been quoted as saying many times, there is no moderate Islam, only Islam.

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