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After the election

If the bookies are right and if numbers of followers on Twitter count for anything, it now seems highly probable that Anne-Marie Waters will win the UKIP leadership election.  She might win by a considerable margin too.

As UKIP is a democratic party, its members must respect the results of the election and decide whether to stay in the party, in which case they are morally obliged to back the new leader, or to leave if they feel that they cannot.  The same goes for all the MEPs and GLA members.

There can be no back biting after the election and no challenges to any democratic decision made by the party members.  No more repeat of the Diane James fiasco, no more short-term leaders.

I have been a vocal critic of AMW’s ‘one-policy’ platform, as I believe that the issues of the economy, law and order and the decline in Britain’s standard of living are far more relevant to the public than Islamic fundamentalism, but I respect the fact that many, many people are indeed more frightened about terrorism and Islam than I am.  Recent events in London, where so-called refugees attempted to blow up a packed tube train, only reinforce those concerns.

Even though it might be the case that AMW will win on her platform, UKIP will still need balance and fresh ideas to become electable and to deliver MP’s.  Without MP’s UKIP is a mere protest group.  So, AMW must make sure that whatever team she brings together as leader have, not only loyalty but the intellectual horse-power to create an alternative and workable manifesto to contest those of the Conservative and Labour parties. She will need to have a clear plan of action as to how she might use what may be just a handful of future MPs in any future hung parliament.  Let’s not forget that the party with the most power, now, is the DUP!

To succeed AMW will need to both purge serious dissenters who would do her in and make friends both internally and externally.  Knocking off dissenters is relatively easy, but making new friends might be difficult as, let’s be frank, AMW is somewhat abrasive and chippy. She must be able to lead, being elected is not enough, and must be seen to mellow somewhat.  I would urge her not to alienate the media either as, as a party leader, she will be forced to engage in adversarial debate with them.  To be sure, she will be under immense and constant pressure the minute she is elected.  It will be vital that she develops a thicker skin.

AMW needs a decent right-hand person and organiser to watch her back.  Although there has been enmity between them in the past the natural person for that role might well be Henry Bolton.  As an ex – soldier and diplomat Bolton respects authority and his gravitas and proven negotiating skills could be the ideal unifying collaboration to hold the party – and its finances- together. We shall see. It would be a shame to lose him.  What is certain is that AMW cannot run UKIP on her own but, so far, she has not indicated if any of the other candidates might be included in her team.  She would be well advised to consider creating new alliances. David Kurten, a likeable and decent man, would be a strong candidate for greater authority within the party, but as for the others, I can’t see them working together under AMW.  Too many bruised egos.

The biggest threat to AMW and the party immediately after the election will be entryism from the so-called far-right.  She will have to resist being feted by any past or present members of any far-right organisation or face almost immediate destruction as a credible leader.   Let’s make this very clear. The public will never elect any UKIP MP if the party and leadership has any truck whatsoever with the self-styled Alt-Right or neo-fascist organisations.  AMW will be forced to sever links with Pegida, Tommy Robinson, Britain First and the rest.  Debating this is irrelevant, as is arguing, for example, that Tommy Robinson has renounced his EDL roots.  I happen to like Robinson, but the attention he attracts is not going to win UKIP or AMW any friends.  It’s just the way it is in politics and the media.

One last point. AMW will face a very real problem with her own, and the party’s, security.  As Nigel Farage found out, extremists and agitators WILL target her.  It is not going to be possible for her to travel on public transport at all and even with a driver she will need close protection that does not come cheap.  (I believe Nigel’s protection cost £20,000 a month).   Diane James was spat at days after being elected and it frightened her off.  So where is AMW going to get this protection from?  She is not entitled to any police protection at all.

Also, UKIP meetings and future conferences will be targeted by extremists just as the YI conference was.   With only a couple of weeks before she might be  thrown into the limelight, I trust that AMW has some plans formulated   and the money to protect herself should she win the election.


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88 Comments on After the election

  1. SIZE 15CARBONFOOTPRINT // September 26, 2017 at 8:02 am // Reply

    Anne Marie Waters the only candidate without a blind spot about mass immigration of hostile third world unemployables.

  2. I don’t remember Salman Rushdie paying for his own protection when under a Fatwah ? I may be wrong…

  3. Mr Bav, I find you rather missleading!

  4. Couldn’t disagree with you more Mr. Bav. Tommy Robinson is a HERO. He is not far right as you depict him, just as the Left do to avoid debate on Islam and being found out. You are either on the centre left yourself or are running scared of the Left. In which case they will always win. High time UKIP stopped trying to appease the Left and told the truth. Robinson should be welcomed into the Party with open arms.

    • I agree, after reading his excellent autobiography “Enemy Of The State” I have a new-found great deal of respect for Tommy Robinson, as well as having a better understanding of the EDL, at least the one he founded, I can’t speak for what they may be like now since he left.
      Tommy Robinson is NOT a far-right racist bigot. And the EDL that he founded was NOT a racist far-right extremist movement. Tommy actually despises the BNP and National Front and tried to keep that element away from the EDL. I don’t think he’s a big fan of Britain First either.
      So I do find it strange that UKIP will not accept membership applications from current or former EDL members, who would probably more likely align with UKIP rather than the BNP, at least politically anyway.

      • Well said. It seems some members of UKIP appear to be listening to msm to get their information which is misinformation. When I started to read and listen to how EDL were formed and the circumstance surrounding it, it is appalling what Tommy has gone through and still does. UKIP needs to condem msm and put counter arguments with fact rather than using msm

    • If to become a member one had to sign a declaration against racism, fascism (Marxism) and any other nasty, wouldn’t that help? Indeed why not write such things into the Constitution of the Party?

  5. So Anne Marie Waters isn’t entitled to any protection from the police? Why not if she’s in danger? Sounds like rubbish to me. I have my fingers crossed for her to win.

  6. I will join UKIP if AM WATERS wins, Politics is an art form, learn to play a role, she is an intelligent person and will learn quickly. look at the abuse Corbyn got but he raised his profile and shook the system, outsiders seem to find support whatever.

  7. She may win, but well meaning though she’ll be, she’ll do absolutely nothing for the party, except hurry its demise even more. As somebody else said, “onward and upward to oblivion”! However, I can’t blame her for wanting to be leader. Any sane ambitious person would want to be that of their party. However, I’m pretty sure, that like the previous two, who I also predicted would fail, so will she. However, the one person who I reckon could save the party, doesn’t seem to be interested, and so UKIP’s problem of finding the right leader will go on.

    • Of course, I reckon you mean Nigel.

      But there is also, perhaps, Douglas Murray?

      Does anyone know anything about his attitude towards such a prospect?

      • No hope with Douglas imo – I reckon he is more use doing what he does so well.
        As for Nigel, he doesn’t want to name the problem – he’s had enough hate against him and his family, again imo.

  8. Well ..I just lost a contract because I was associated with UKIP
    I will step down as regional chair but that will not help me get a job
    F&cking clown shoes 🙁

    • Lorimer,

      This a really terrible thing to hear from you, can you tell us how they found out, and how you know you lost the contract because of being in UKIP.

      Best of luck, and best wishes trying to find something else, but truly if this is happening we have to somehow put a stop to it.

    • Hmm. That’s very serious. I heard something very similar – possible job discrimination- from a very good friend and prominent Kipper today. Can’t give any details whilst its being looked at.
      Has anyone else suffered this sort of problem??
      This is worth fighting for. On that I trust we are unanimous ?

  9. I voted for AMW and if she wins, we’ll see an immediate rise in new members, a tremendous amount of publicity and a great deal of support from the White Working Class. That’s exactly what the party needs to be re-energised !

    For lets face it, the Tories have stolen UKIP’s former flagship policies on Brexit, Immigration and Grammar Schools, which is why the party is dying. There’s no point in pretending that we can re-claim our former ground, since the Tory Eurosceptics are now in very powerful position and are trusted by the public.

    My greatest concern is AMW’s ability to ‘Herd Cats’ for she will face many vicious enemies within. Secondly, I wonder how the party would go about attracting the large donors, it would need. Finally, the matter of her personal security is a serious one, especially in view of the costs involved.

  10. For another take on Islamisation here is a newly released video of an interview with the excellent Gavin Boby ‘The Mosque Buster’. I challenge Mr Bav to watch this and then turn round and say Islam is not an issue of major importance.

  11. If anyone doubts the BBC’s direction of travel, cop a listen to Woman’s Hour this week at about 10.30am. (or not). The timetable has been altered this week to specifically cater for a drama series called “Just a girl”, the travails of “just your average 13 yr old transgender child in the modern world” So there: transgender kids are a problem – or rather almost everyone else is the problem. Every left-wing cliché is there. Juxtaposed this morning were slurs by it’s father slating Brexit and Donald Trump. Her friends were agonising over which toilet she would use but she had no such cares; she would use whichever toilet she wished because IT IS THE LAW. No one can touch you for it. The next programme – wrongly titled “The Listening Project” and lasting about 8 minutes – foisted on the listener the views of 2 peace workers who met “after Brexit” and who decried the selfishness of people in Bexhill who had no sympathy at all for Eastern European migrants. “They will be nursing all UK people when they are old”. How selfish – no mention that I might be cared for by a transgender person. I wonder what salaries BBC transgender staff receive? I think we should be told – together with the date of the next transgender Olympics and/or football World Cup.

    • Well! Cut off my b*ll**ks and call me Betty!
      Who cares? Seriously, who cares about a BBC drama? It doesn’t affect the pound in our pocket or Hurricane Maria. It does not influence inflation or affect the economy. Its a bl**dy play. A c**p one by the sound of it!
      No political party can tell, nor should it be able to tell, any broadcaster what plays it can or cannot transmit.
      I will now have to , out of curiosity , give it at least ten minutes of ear-time. Then take my make up off…

    • Roger, I used to have a radio in every room of the house. Loved it – varied, interesting, different – I knew the time of every Radio 4 Programme. Post Brexit, that’s when it really changed, overnight. I hung on in the Archers (!!) for a while, but had to throw the towel in, in the end! No radios now!

  12. Mr Bav,

    You have presented the case very well, and knowing that you have a strong view, you have been admirably fair.

    My own article on this subject is due here within the next few days and makes some similar points including the problem of bodyguards.

    I am not sure how a leader would ‘purge’ dissenters. Isn’t that under control of the NEC, rather than the leader?

    The ‘balance’ on the BBC and other places is related to where they paint the middle ground. To many of us their ‘balance’ is well into enemy territory. Anyone who is classically middle of the road will be called right wing. Anyone speaking negatively about a group high on the oppression stack will be called a fascist.

    I think the correct way to deal with media is to be polite and ostensibly friendly, but to forcefully point out their bias.

    I listened to AMW on LBC and felt that she was not prepared for a negative interview. I hope, if she becomes leader, that she will be forged in the fire before they burn her.

    Again I congratulate you on your article.

    • “Anyone who is classically middle of the road will be called right wing”.

      Spot on. The problem is that everything has moved ‘left of field’. Perfectly acceptable middle-of-the-road views of just 20 years ago will now get you labelled a dangerous reactionary (at best).

  13. Mr Bav, I find I have no option but to agree with you.
    Many, many people are indeed more frightened of terrorism and Islam (almost synonymous these days) than you are.

    Film producers
    Pub owners and hotel chains
    River boat venues

    Are all so frightened that the public don’t get to hear the truth about this malevolent political ideology. Information and discussion are banned, wholesale, from the public sphere and so the curious and determined are left to find out for themselves ‘what is going on’.

    • Well said Eliza. Mr Bav appears to still not appreciate the magnitude of the problem we’re facing.

      • Ignorance is bliss to many, untill genocide of course.. rather late then of course.

        I call it willfull ignorance and in fact a form of treason considering the situation we are in.

  14. UKIP’s Conscience (sic!) wrote,

    Anne Marie is more Nigel than Nigel. She has the charisma, vision, and passion to take ukip forward. She is head and shoulders above all the other candidates. I also do not see her playing second fiddle to anyone. Onwards and Upwards!

    Well, I’ve seen both speak and you could not be more wrong.

    Charisma? There was no sign of it when she spoke at the Eastern hustings. I saw a woman with a defensive, oddly hunched body posture, a curious way of looking at the audience through her nostrils and an unimpressive speaking voice. I would have had more respect for her if she had gone all out with her principle message – at least that would have shown some courage — but presumably she was playing it down because she knows it alienates as many people as it attracts. She may have vision but it’s tunnel vision, with anything other than her central anti-Islam policy being tacked on as afterthoughts. Passion? Half the time she seemed zoned out, unengaged with the other candidates and the audience.

    You’re probably right about her not playing second fiddle, nor would I expect her to particularly good at compromise. That plays well here with her fanbase, but cooperation and compromise are the stuff of politics. No doubt we’ll now see posts from those who demand no dilution of the True Message, but if we want votes we need to fight on a platform that doesn’t alienate voters. The British people are bad at hate, good at meeting opponents halfway, at least until they see that there is no common ground. My judgement, after fighting two general elections, two county elections, one borough election and helping at five by elections, is that we have not yet reached the point where voters think that humane and common-sense solutions have been exhausted.

    Elect Miss Waters and the British public will shrug and walk away. UKIP’s enemies will point and say ‘told you so.’ UKIP will be finished. If she fails, as I hope, then she should bugger off and form her own party — again. She could call it UK Alternative for Sharia Watch for All Pegida Labour after the organisations she’s been in over the years. We’ll meet her at the ballot box and we’ll see whose vision better suits England and its people.

    Onwards and Upwards? More like Forward to Oblivion!


    • Correct me if I am wrong but didn’t UKIP receive only 1.8% of the vote in the last election. I support and vote UKIP and I consider the party in its present state as finished. No one but AMW will inject some life into the party because of her message and not necessarily because of her as a person. People are crying out for measures to be taken against Islam. It’s up to UKIP to take advantage of the situation.

      • Bernard from Bucks // September 20, 2017 at 8:31 pm // Reply

        “… didn’t UKIP receive only 1.8% of the vote in the last election.”
        Yes, yes, yes and islam (halal) was in there somewhere.
        Watch now as the 1.8% falls to 0.9%. 🙁

        • Bernard,

          If you believe UKIP only received 1.8% of the vote because Paul Nuttall threatened to ban the burka I think you are seriously deluded on that point.

          I mean no disrespect to you.

    • Well said sir.

      Lib/Lab/Con and every liberal/left organisation plus the BBC will be dancing in the aisles if AMW is elected. They know that it will be the death knell of UKIP.
      Members and very importantly long time activist members and sponsors will leave in droves with the national network of branches (the backbone of UKIP)closing down as officers drift off.
      A vote for AMW is a vote for the end of UKIP.

      • I disagree. Labour at least will enter panic mode if AMW wins. Her effect may not be immediate but over the following months I believe the traditional Labour supporters will pay a lot of attention to her.

      • Bernard from Bucks // September 20, 2017 at 8:42 pm // Reply

        “A vote for AMW is a vote for the end of UKIP.”
        Well said sir.
        You sense it, I sense it and I am sure the members out there who have to knock doors, sense it. Someone once said – “Those whom the gods wish to destroy they first make mad”. UKIP’s turn next?

      • Sean,

        We got 4.6% even though we were not a target seat — a long way down from our nearly 22% in 2025, but only to be expected when even our own members told me they’d vote Con to keep Brexit on the road. In the county election I got 770 votes which was not bad considering that everyone was trying to keep out Labour, and a little bird tells me that one of the most senior cons voted for me as a personal endorsement. Had the NEC been better organised we would have taken Haverhill Town Council a few months before the election and the ensuing publicity would have benefited everyone.

        On what basis do you claim that people are crying out for an anti-Islam agenda? Not where I’ve been and I’ve been to a lot of places in the last four years. The Pakistani heritage communities on the east coast were voting UKIP because of our immigration control policies.

        Are you putting too much credence on the echo chamber that is the internet, or do you have a lot of experience on the doorstep?


    • Dear Julian, I dont know you but if you are going to the conference I imagine you will be one of the many who will not accept a win by AMW. That’s OK, but will you leave and let her get on with it, or snipe from inside? If she wins the vote then that is what the members wanted. You nor anyone else has the right to tell UKIP what to do. It is above all a party of the members. Oblivion lies in the hands of most of the other candidates. I have a second favourite to Anne Marie but the others are pitiful from a leadership standpoint. I want someone who inspires me, will not duck issues and is not a puppet of the current hierarchy. AMW doesn’t need to do everything. I see the model as Ronald Reagan who was a wonderful communicator and picked the right team around him and let them get on with it. What UKIP needs above all is an inspirational leader. There is only one prospect and that is Anne Marie Waters. I only know some of her team and I expect her to make good choices, she has not done badly so far.

      I have had a few dealings with her and she is by far the most thoughtful and competent person I have met in UKIP. If only UKIP could have produced party political broadcasts up to the standard of her videos. She has a pool of talent behind her. I think she will tap into a huge well of votes.

      I accept loads of people will leave if she wins and I say good riddance. The party will be better off. I look forward with enthusiasm to a reinvigorated UKIP which keeps its name and Logo and thereby the recognition amongst the public. No Rebrand and no new logo.

      Is there anything else you want to disagree with?

  15. If I may say so, Mr. Bav, you seem to be far too accepting of “just the way it is in politics and the media”. That is what millions of voters are currently incensed about in the way we are governed now.
    Surely, it is not the place of an insurrection party, like UKIP to accept “the way it is in politics and the media?” That is precisely why I voted for A-MW. She is the only candidate I feel confident will change the way things are now and the sooner the better.

  16. My mind is quite clear.

    1. Only Two candidates Desperately Want, Need, are willing to be abused and denigrated, and make sacrifices for the Dream of leading.

    2. Both have peculiar ideas, but once cured either could make a leader. They are serious. The rest are just people.

    3. Frightened of terrorism ? Idiotic.
    As a child, during 5 years of the war spent in Brum and S.Wales with sirens every night, with houses in every few streets bombed, I never saw anyone running around in panic screaming and waving their arms in the air. Plenty running , plenty screaming, but very little falsity or foolishness. And the Germans were very thorough, and it didn’t work.

    4. A final thought, One good interview complete with one good subtle insult ( deserved ) on Sunday Politics, and Mr McNiel, and everyone will want to interview them to prove something. Followers on twitter do not count. They’ve not considered and made up their minds yet..

  17. Well, it’s difficult to get a word in edgeways, this is such a popular topic. I really hope Anne Marie wins, I am going to the Torquay conference in the hope of seeing the look on the faces of all those who have done everything deceitful and underhand to try and stop her.

    Henry Bolton would have been a good chairman but I wouldn’t touch him with a barge pole given what he did, although it may not have been his initiative. He is obviously a good administrator, but a leader he is not. It’s sad that he burnt his bridges.

    UKIP will be in for a rough ride if/when Anne Marie wins and her supporters need to rally round. My understanding is that the donor loans are not immediately repayable so there will be some breathing space on the money side. She has a very able assistant in Stuart Agnew and I hope Gerrard Batten will support her, he could pick up the Brexit issues very confidently. Anne Marie has already identified a chairman so she has thought ahead. As I said in a previous post, it will depend whether the NEC back her. If she does not have a majority on the NEC she will be wasting her time. The constitution allows them to do anything with the party.

    Anne Marie is more Nigel than Nigel. She has the charisma, vision, and passion to take ukip forward. She is head and shoulders above all the other candidates. I also do not see her playing second fiddle to anyone. Onwards and Upwards!

  18. I think I can allay the obvious fears of Mr Bav – Anne Marie will not get enough votes to become leader! I am in psychic contact with CitizenKain’s Venezuelan aunt – and she has told me that this will be the case – unfortunately. However, all is not lost because she does tell me there is a great future ahead for AMW – in some capacity. No doubt she will enlighten me further in the fullness of time.

    That aside, I can’t help mentioning that what with the sainted Mr Bolton’s past achievements – negotiating tricky situations to apparently satisfactory conclusions (depending which side you were on, presumably) it is rather strange that his diplomatic skills failed so spectacularly in the case of Anne Marie – should she have become Leader, might I be of help in such a situation – appears to have been absent from his calculations. You could hardly have expected trust from her after not one, but two extremely unhelpful ‘interventions’.

    • Lovely of you to speak of my aunt in such good terms Dee. Let us hope for an intervention from the Gods on Olympus.
      try to keep positive Dee and remember 23rd June 2016 and the enrgy it created around the world.

  19. The Islamization of Britain is the biggest threat to these Islands for 1000 years.
    Unfortunately, AMW is not the person to do anything united about it. Islam uses liberal values just as it uses everything else to advance its beliefs. Jihad, or the struggle, is used across the board for these beliefs, resulting in terrorism, change in population demographics, affiliation to willing political parties, living off benefits or ‘Jihad Seekers Allowance’ as Anjem Chowdrey once called it. All down with conquest and conversion being the goal. Muslims, put simply, are often driven by religious fervor which many modern people cannot understand. If AMW does win, I wish her luck but she’ll be up against a brutal MSM and a nation lacking the will and intelligence to see what’s really around the corner. That said, AMW should form her own political party rather than split UKIP.

  20. I joined UKIP nearly 8 years ago, because they promised to be determined to break up the political face of Britain, ie LabCon, and in practice no-one else.

    It also helped tremendously for me, the fact that UKIP’s No1 bucket list item was Brexit.

    Although our party has always had policies to run the country, ever since I have been a member we have been faced with putting out fires – which we must do before we can get down to the nice detailed stuff to do with referenda and HS2 etc etc. The first fire is Brexit. The second is our culture literally being replaced by a foreign politico-religion. If we don’t tackle islam ASAP, sorting things like HS2 will be a moot point under sharia law.

    Forget about getting MPs elected, UKIP support is spread too evenly. First Past the Post kills most smaller parties. I am continually gobsmacked how many posters on here just don’t get that. In Germany, the AFD, roughly comparable to UKIP, are projected to win around 60 seats in parliament – yet their national popularity is little more than ours was at the peak two years ago. But they have Proportional Representation there. We need to bang on and on and on abut PR here, if we really are serious about getting our fair (ie democratic) share of Westminster representation.

  21. UKIP’S ability to get MP’s elected, as opposed to changing sides, has not exactly been a huge success thus far. To suggest that Anne will make it worse reminds me of the man condemned to stoning for his love of halibut in ‘The life of Brian’…’How can it possibly be worse?!’

  22. The rise of Islam in the UK is no more a single issue than leaving the EU is a single issue. Both mean the UK ceasing to be a democratic nation unless policies change radically.

    Unless policies change radically, the UK will become a majority Muslim country some time between 2040 and 2060:

    Saying we should concentrate on other policies and not worry about that is like Germans in late 1944 worrying about whether they should expand the Autobahn network. Soon it wouldn’t be their network but the Allies’ network.

    UKIP policy on the EAW, HS2 or anything else is really neither here nor there when on current demographic trends this will soon no longer be our country to make decisions for.

    • with all due respect, – Britain will not become Muslim majority country.
      Britain will be partitioned.
      the process has alreeady started, the goal of Western part of the society, is to win favourable conditions.
      to do that, one needs anti-Islamic Resistance, which in the long run will become de-Islamization.
      to start, expand and manage all of the above, one needs person like AMW.

  23. Never in my wildest dreams can I imagine AMW wanting HB as deputy. For one, what does HB offer, he doesn’t even have a support base within UKIP as he has never even stood for the party in a local council or parliamentary election. Secondly he has inferred she is a Nazi! All the time sitting alongside her at hustings, smiling out of one corner of his mouth, suggesting she will bring national socialism ideals to UKIP with the other corner.

    WRT to funding the party going forward, it is possible that one of the donors who has lent money pulls the plug, albeit with a notice period of up to one year there is no hope of replacing that funding if it is the bigger debt. However, it is also possible a deal can be done to allow the lenders to convert their loans into donations and walk away, because AMW could also make life very difficult for them. Mills won’t want his name being dragged through the mud. There is no point in them hanging around because the party will NEVER have enough money to pay them back, and yet by hanging around they would be seen to be backing the new regime. AMW could say and do things to make life very uncomfortable for them. So the only way for them to make a quick exit is to convert the loans to donations and say goodbye. If they go down the route of suing for bankruptcy then the result would be the same (they won’t get anything back as UKIP has no assets) but they would get a lot of bad media along the way. Maybe they are spiteful enough to want that because they believe it is their party? As Mills has recently taken position as business spokesman then it certainly seems like he has no intention of walking away (yet), although on other hand perhaps that is what the Treasurer asked him to do to signal his commitment given all this talk of bankruptcy?

  24. Mr Bav,
    You say
    “If it is not monitored by UKIP itself……….”
    I think you have put your finger on a fundamental problem with UKIP.
    I haven`t heard the “voice” of UKIP for at least a year, except occasionally that of Nigel.
    If you don`t monitor effectively, how can you expect to formulate effective rebuttals?
    As a “for instance” I have been personally furiouat the stated British attitude for relief to Hurricane devastated Commonwealth member West Indian islands.That overseas aid funds are not allowed to be used whether the citizens are too well paid or for whatever nonsense reason is obscene.
    In times of stress and evident immediate need, I find it shameful that OUR government as head of this Commonwealth (Queen titular)should seek to hide behind Rules and Regs.
    Where is/has been the “voice” of UKIP??????
    Thinks…….where is UKIP on the Commonwealth period
    They`re our kith and kin, many who gave their blood for the “mother” country in two world wars (and before).
    When my mother in law in Burma, asked her Mali “would you like to listen with us to the speech about the death of King George V1”
    He replied.
    “My king too memsahib!”
    GB has a great wrong to right to the Commonwealth and I believe Brexit is the means of starting to redress this, call it atonement if you like.

  25. I voted for AMW with my head more than my heart. Though naturally I hope AnneMarie wins I think she will come at best second and poss third. The main reason for this opinion is the voting demographic of UKIP members. It is overwhelmingly male, 50yrs+, middleclass/lowermc, Home Counties, oldtory stock, with about a third of members completely inactive but who might vote for the candidate most like Diane James politically but feel their vote is in a safe pair of hands with Whittle or Bolton. These voters are not it savvy nor that bothered about bigger pictures – their attention and annoyance is aimed at the remainiacs; and of course there is some sense in that.
    Whittle will be clueless as leader ( paper bag comes to mind) and the party will sink into catalepsy. The only positive is that it just might be around long enough to keep some pressure up on May’s coming betrayal.
    Bolton will be a good leader and just might do something to be proud of. The trouble is that his kind of leadership is more that of an administrator rather than politician. In opposition he will not communicate at all esp not with the biggest constituencies of Brexit voters – the Northern and Midland native working class.
    That is the dilemma – UKIP membership plays golf but the future of UKIP if it has one plays football. Though I disagree profoundly with Quercus’ solutions he is right to indicate our ukip elite do not connect with our core vote.

    • I could almost be flattered CK! G’day.
      But then how should the “UKIP elite connect with our core vote” if not by advancing policies which might actually appeal to them?

      • I agree with your statement where we prob disagree is the priority we give to which policies and when.
        I do not want to go into any detail until the leadership election is done and then we shall be on a carousel or a roller coaster

    • I would be interested to learn on what evidence you base your negative comments about Peter Whittle ?

      Have you heard him speak in Hustings this summer ?

      I have and I was pleasantly surprised : I saw evidence of real passion for fairness for the poor and dispossessed, and for the importance of restricting MUI – mass uncontrolled immigration, not to mention of course Brexit.

      In addition to those qualities he was very thoughtful / intelligent in the Q and A session following his set speech. I have since seen him a couple of times on TV and again he is an excellent debater and can respond to unplanned for Qs……this was a quality which Paul Nuttall sadly did not possess, and which, I much regret having to say it, AMW does not possess either.

      A forensic interviewer will destroy her. It’s one thing to say ‘ We must put an end to the Islamicization of Britain ‘ – quite another to set out specific, practical, and vote winnable policies which could achieve that end.
      She is good at the Father Ted type ‘Lets put an end to this type of thing’ but hopeless on specifics.
      And btw, if ever we needed an example of the grotesque consequences of running the election on a FPTP basis ( which in my view the Constitution simply does not require ) it will be if AMW wins at the same time as (probably ) losing her deposit !

  26. The question of affordability of being leader can probably be levelled at most candidates. At the recent general election HBdeclined standing as an mp on the grounds that he needed to take a job in a government dept.because of finances. An mp is paid, a UKIP leader is not. Think on that?

    • HB gave me a different reason he didn’t stand, which was that he was on a government contract that forbade him from running for elected office and that the deadline was so tight he could not fulfil the notice period of contract (certainly the deadline was incredibly tight, I got 2 days’ notice!). I believe he said he would need to be paid as UKIP leader.

      • what I have stated is what one member of the selection panel told me. Why did he not state that at the time to his colleagues at Folkestone? He stood down from his job in the EU too stand for Crime Commissioner . Then it is reported that he did not make the Welsh hustings because he was working in Brussels. Seems contrary to say the least.

  27. Two risks – sorry challenges – should AMW win:

    1) If Nigel leaves UKIP prompting some patron donors to stop donating then UKIP collapses financially and goes into liquidation. There is nothing in the kitty to keep the party going while the promised new members are garnered at a rate, and in sufficient numbers, to offset the leavers.

    2) AMW surrounds herself with the adulatory type of supporter and so will inhabit a group think bubble. She needs a supportive team but one that includes members capable of critiquing her. If politics is about judgement and if it is experience that informs judgement (the reason we don’t let kids run things) then she needs to bring in some politically mature people.

    • I would imagine all the UKIP ‘faces’ like Nigel / O’Flynn / Evans / Crowther/ Hookem / Batten etc will immediately walk away.
      I’m not pooling that group of people as natural allies, merely as intelligent people with reputations to keep.
      Can you imagine NF on the Andrew Marr show defending AMW ?
      He’s not stupid.

      • O’Flynn/Evanns/Crowther – walking away immediately? Bring it on!!

      • Many readers, AMW supporters in particular, do not realise that the orchestra of MEPs, Henry Bolton, Peter Whittle, Steve Crowther et al, have a conductor – Nigel Farage. He is on public record saying UKIP is finished if it elects Anne Marie Waters.

        I don’t think her election would necessarily finish UKIP – depends on what she says and does subsequently – and Nigel may stay but that is far from certain. Were he to lead an exodus that might be fatal.

        • Is Nigel actually on public record as saying that about Anne Marie Stout?

          I thought what he said was that UKIP would be finished if it became a single issue party. That’s not really the same thing.

        • Stout – I realize that – he has made it fairly obvious! Whether or not Nigel has a different agenda is the other question. The thing is, that we all understood that Nigel needed a rest, but he obviously doesn’t, or didn’t see the need to return and lead UKIP when Paul resigned. He is happy spreading his message through the fairly ghastly LBC and on the BBC – which is fine, and I think he enjoys what he does. He has variously said that Theresa May would deliver Brexit, Corbyn would deliver Brexit and even memorably once that Merkel was our only hope of Brexit! Possibly, had he decided to return to UKIP, that might have been our best hope of Brexit. But it appears to me that Nigel doesn’t want to lead UKIP, and yet he doesn’t want to let it be led, unless it is by someone of his choosing. He may get his way, and continue to be in the driving seat, but if not, when an impending force meets an immovable object, something has to give. We may have got to that point?

          • Nigel meets regularly with MEPs, the top team and with groups of patrons.

            He doesn’t want the limelight – too many credible threats to his and his childrens’ safety – but still influences behind the scenes. You are spot on with “it appears to me that Nigel doesn’t want to lead UKIP, and yet he doesn’t want to let it be led, unless by someone of his choosing”.

  28. Security costs were for Nigel were HORRENDOUS, and I have yet to see anyone explain how this would be funded in AMW’s case. I hope it’s not a case if ostritches in the sand…

    • Another reason to impeach Rudd and May is their contempt for public safety.
      That Nigel Farage was leader of a middle of the road party who received death threats and violence regularly and yet no police protection was offered is a scandal.
      Tommy Robinson was sent to jail on trumped up charges and was expected to be killed inside by islamic militants – if you doubt this I suggest you read “Enemy of the State”. These are criminal acts by the political and administrative elite.
      AMW is fully aware of the severe risks she faces and perhaps like TR expects not to die in their old age in bed but to be murdered by someone shouting allysnackbar. This is what England has come to. There have been many men and women in the past who have given their lives for their country fearlessly feeling that death rather than cowardice is the best option.
      One of the most remarkable – to mention but one in the vein of AMW was (surprisingly)Noor Inayat Khan executed in Dachau in 1944.

  29. It is not possible for all of the party to unite behind any of the leadership candidates. If AMW wins, some will leave. If any other candidate wins, some will leave. My sense is that more will leave, including myself and others I know personally and online, if AMW does not win.

    UKIP has been split for years and a reckoning is long overdue. The party is on life support and only major invasive surgery will give it a chance of survival. Until the split is resolved, mainly by one or other side leaving, the party will never progress from the parlous state it is in.

    UKIP will not be winning MPs any time soon, regardless of who is elected Leader. Even at the height of the “people’s army” and lead by Nigel Farage the party repeatedly failed to break into Westminster (I do not count Carswell for obvious reasons). The electoral system, entrenched tribal politics and hostile media present just too great a hurdle. We have had great success as a pressure group, and that may be where UKIP’s future, especially in the short to medium term, lies.

    Whoever becomes leader, UKIP faces a number of years in the political wilderness electorally. We will have no MPS, no MEPS few if any Councillors. But the challenge facing the new leader is not to broaden UKIP’s appeal in order to win elections. That ship sailed, if it was ever afloat, a long time ago. The challenge facing the new UKIP Leader is to give enough people enough of a reason to support UKIP to ensure that the party survives at all. And it must survive as there is no right of centre party in UK politics.

    “I would urge her not to alienate the media”
    By being elected UKIP Leader she will have alienated the media. If we electedthe Dalai Lama the media would still hate us and run “racist UKIP lurch far-right” headlines.

    I would strongly urge her to alienate the media. Self-censorship will get us nowhere. We have several political parties who play it safe and refuse to tell the truth. UKIP always has and always will be a target for media smears, so can we please stop pretending that there’s a candidate or a set of policies that will get fair media coverage. If we elect a candidate that is acceptable to the media, we will have elected the wrong candidate.

    As Trump’s election proved, and as he keeps on proving with speeches such as the one he just gave to the UN, the media are the enemy just as much as the other political parties. If we have one eye on the media response before we do or say anything then we have already lost. If the media are outraged by something, as they will perpetually be, then we must never, ever apologise for it and see it as a sign to double down and push harder.

    Boris Johnson is currently the subject of a media witch hunt. They have fabricated a narrative about his resignation, and are doing all they can to remove him as foreign Secretary. His crime? Saying something positive about Britain and about Brexit.

    • Thanks Gary. The press are under no obligation to be impartial, hence the absurdity of reporting from the Guardian on one side and the Express on the other. The serious papers tend to throw in balance even if they come down on one side. Broadcast media is entirely different. The BBC is under close scrutiny, from the governors to Ofcom, and ultimately to Parliament, as a statutory corporation (as is C4) to show impartiality. ITV,C4,C5 are all under the aegis of ITN. ITN are impartial. SKY is somewhat out the mix. HOWEVER if we look at the remit of both C4 and BBC2, they are obliged under charter to offer alternative and balanced news opinion which is not necessarily covered by the main broadcast channels. So ‘opinion’ is allowed but only if balanced. If for instance James O’Brien (Newsnight BBC2) interviews, a very ‘anti-UKIP’ commentator, the editors should and do offer the right of reply. The prowess of the interviewee becomes important. Thats also the case on commercial radio and the editors/producers are normally at pains to offer balance. However if its not monitored by UKIP itself, sometimes opinionated presenters, particularly on low rating programmes, are not picked up. If it is, the editors will allow a fair response. Really, this is the way it works. My fundamental argument is that if, instead of constantly whining about ‘biased media’ UKIP works with it, professionally, it will get a much better airing and not look as reactionary.

      • Your comments above Bav are disingenuous. Politically the bbc is evil and is far from impartial. That any member of UKIP doubts this is cause for concern. The whole ethos and hidden agenda of theevilbbc is multiculturalism together with antitrumpism and def proremain in the EU.
        It sickens me and the only way forward is to see it broken up. BBC R4 Today news prog this morning had a nonpolitical item on food emphasising the difficulties that BREXIT will bring – poss famine and then went on to speak of the 1950s diet as boring overcooked stodge. We had some of the finest meat in the world and still do and at that time all the veg was organic. Nobody died and few if any became obese. Not one person to put the other case against “food expert” Fay Maschler”

        • Exactly, the BBC’s clearly biased news coverage is a problem, but the way it pushes its political agenda through its non-political output is the real threat. Watch an episode or Dr Who or Countryfile these days and you’ll be left in no doubt as to the political views the BBC wants you to have.

          I’ve canceled my “TV license”. I wouldn’t pay for a copy of the Guardian, so I refuse to pay for its televisual equivalent.

        • You are quite correct Ck.

          Our reprobate governments are failing in their duty of care to their citizens and provision for national security with their sticking plaster antics and the BBC and media generally are failing in their duty to challenge them.

          Nothing but failure all round. Their silent collusion is truly sickening.

      • With respect, Mr Bav, possibly the most naive post I’ve ever seen on these pages. Yes, obviously the BBC, C4 are theoretically obliged to be impartial. Even SKY and other media outlets claim strict impartiality. The fact is that they quite clearly are not. You only have to watch a few minutes of any UK TV output to see that they are anti-Brexit, and at election time particularly, anti-UKIP. Not just in their news coverage but across their “entertainment” output, too. When was the last time you heard an anti-EU joke on a BBC comedy show? When was the last time the BBC’s flagship political programme Question Time had a majority pro-Brexit panel? Out of 5 panelists, 3 or 4 every week are Remainiacs. Every. Single. Week.

        The problem is not with the organisations as such, it is the fact that they employ people from a very narrow political gene pool. They bang on about diversity, but there is no diversity of ideas among the lavishly paid staff at the BBC, who are mostly young, metropolitan leftists. The vast majority of the media will be “liberal”, cultural Marxist, anti-Brexit, anti-British and will therefore hate UKIP, not for our policies or personnel or lack of media savvy but because they see us as a threat to their bigoted world view.

        It’s been proved time and time again. The BBC give much more airtime to anti-Brexit views. Their coverage is relentlessly negative. Yes, they may then air a pro-Brexit or pro-UKIP view, but when was the last time you saw a UKIP representative or a Brexiteer who wasn’t interrupted every 30 seconds by the interviewer? They feign impartiality by having a token Brexiteer on, then give the Remainiac a free ride while roasting said Brexiteer.

        The 4th estate is supposed to hold our politicians to account. Their relationship is far to incestuous for that. The media and political class are one and the same, people move seamlessly between the two groups. Journalists will be angling for jobs as SPADS, politicos will want to earn a few quid with a newspaper column and TV appearances. As a class, they are a country mile away from the general public on most issues. UKIP, however professionalised and however acceptable our policies are to the media will never ever get a fair crack of the whip. The media class only consider us in terms of smear or sneer – if they can’t slag us off or ridicule us in their coverage, then they don’t cover us.

        A Nick Robinson, Robert Peston or Andrew Marr will claim till the cows come home that they are impartial. But they have such narrow world views, and are surrounded by people with the same narrow world views, that it is impossible for them to be balanced or neutral. Anyone who is patriotic, pro-Brexit, anti mass immigration etc etc will, from their narrow perspective, be a figure to smear and sneer at. The only way we will become acceptable to these people is to morph into a politically correct clone of the other parties, play by the approved establishment orthodoxies and don’t rock the boat. But in that case the media would just ignore us completely, as would the public, and what would be the point of such a UKIP in any case?

    • Well said Gary. Obsessing about the media is wasted energy.

  30. Mr. Bav,

    If you have read recent posts by AMW you should have realised that she is not a single issue leader but the issue that you refer to is one of critical importance to many. It will not be resolved by the appointment of an appeaser.

    It seems to me that we came far too close to losing the last war against Germany thanks to the appeasers; do we now want to lose the war against Islam?

  31. Betting odds are all about risk, not probability.

    • Exactly, Simon, I hope, but very much doubt that Anne Marie will win. Whoever is elected Leader, I shall wait and hope – as I did with Mr Nuttall. However, this time instead of criticizing when, after a short while, disaster was obviously looming, I shall just go quietly!

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